dgray_man | Series on hiatus

urggggg.

Actually, I've heard of accusations of plagiarism on her about a month ago when I happen to run into a Japanese youtube sort of site. The video compared D.Gray-man, Zone and Continue with several well-known manga (which I'm not naming for the moment). It's obvious that she has read those manga. Possibly she did it unconsciously and not on purpose. But my faith faltered a bit when I saw how alike the images are (Hoshino's and those that she was accused to have copied).

Artists copy from each other all the time, but making it so obvious is almost foolish. Motto is, draw something else if you can't draw it, just don't plagiarise.

Is there a formal article about D.Gray-man's hiatus being a direct result of plagiarism accusation? Like a statement from an official source. Just to make sure this isn't a rumor.

In regards to your last question - no, this is only a rumor. I saw the video you mentioned few months ago too and if this didn't get her into trouble, I doubt the current situation will.

Do you have a link for the video? (I'm sure you're correct in what you say, I'm just curious and want to see it myself.)

It took me a while but I found it. Searched under the keywords D.Gray-man but it's actually under Hoshino Katsura. Unfortunately, for those who do not have a Nicovideo account, I don't think this video is actually viewable. To get an account...well you need to register in Japanese. Anyway, here's the link (http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm1190877).

If you don't have a Nicovideo account but you still want to glimpse why there is suspicion on plagiarism, here's a link to a Japanese site (http://hoshinokatira.blog117.fc2.com/). This one doesn't cover D.Gray-man, only Zone and Continue. The video is much more in depth, but this page gives you an idea.

Be warned, if you view either, be prepared for the good image of Hoshino Katsura shatter in your head slightly, if not entirely.

I'm not accusing Hoshino-sensei here, it's merely a suspicion. I still love D.Gray-man (love the manga, not necessarily the author).

Thank you. I've been meaning to register for Nicovideo sometime anyway (so much good stuff is on that site, apparently!) so I'll take a look at it.

Hmm. But looking at those pics on that Japanese site....yes...I think she definitely read those manga. Those are not coincidences. I didn't think the Madarao one was a coincidence either, but I'd hoped maybe it was the fault of an assistant. Seems not.

(Not even suspicions of plagiarism like those could stop me from liking DGM or Hoshino. But it does make me think she's rather less professional than I'd imagined...even though DGM is her first proper series. I'd have thought she would have more sense.)

...But now I've seen the video....wow. Even Timcanpy has a lookalike? That's a big surprise. A few of those things might be all right, but that many? :( I rather hoped that Hoshino had more originality.

Exactly. Professionalism is what's important in this matter. In Japan, mangaka are called sensei, as some of us know. A sensei, teacher, is suppose to be a positive role model for others. I doubt this would be as big of an issue if a doujinshi artist plagiarises here and there. For god's sake Hoshino is suppose to be a professional. Seems to me that moral and dignity is out the window.

Thanks for sharing this.

Wow, this is surprising. I suspect that she's mostly been using those panels from those other manga as references, since I guess it would be faster than if she made up those poses from scratch.

As for the designs, *shrug* yup it does look like plagiarism, but for some of those things (like the gun and timcanpy) it's not really. I thought Timcampy was a rip-off of the golden snitch with a tail back in the days before I actually read DGM.

Now I just hope whatever troubles it is that's causing this hiatus will be over soon. >< DGM is still a great manga anyway!

Ok. There are similitude but, I think that the person who search all this pix are really stupid. He surely wants to bother Hoshino in her job and, I find that really childlike.
It's normal to have similitude with other manga so, it's not because she draws a mobile break or some flowers which are alike in other manga that we have to make a fuss.

Ah, It's so stupid. -_-

Anyways, I don't care of this stupid rumor and I love D.gray-man and Hoshino-sensei like before - it's not because of something like that, that I will change my mind.

That's all.

That vid really convinced you? :/ I don't know, I went and watched it just now and it looks really contrived to me. There were a couple panels where the composition made me wonder a little, but 99% of those pics look like nothing more than coincidence. Like Shakespeare said, there's nothing new under the sun; people's ideas are almost always going to resemble each other at least a little. It really seemed like that vid-maker was just trying to find reasons to bash Hoshino.

Exactly my thoughts. Of course, I wouldn't say that Hoshino is entirely innocent in this matter as seen in Madarao's hand and maybe Maria's design. But seriously, the gun thing? Don't all artist at some point draw objects in their manga according to objects in real life? How is that plagiarism?(unless the gun was a model of a gun from some other series?)

But really, if someone actually bothers to spend all their time finding pictures to compare, then I think they're just trying to find reasons to hate Hoshino.

Pretty poor excuse for a video. Not blaming you or anything, but that video is kinda pathetic. As if some authors aren't bound to get their ideas from other authors on occasion. Imagination can only take you so far even with the best of intentions. Everything a person sees influences their style, and this is especially true for artists. I'm kinda disgusted by the ridiculous accusations of plagiarism over a few similarities on a page.

Ye...ars? ;____;

Seriously, what the heck with that !!
If it's true, someone really has a grudge against her, and really don't want her back on work !

Geh, so depressing!

TAKESHI OBATA?!? seriously who gives a fuck about it? big whoop! there are tons of similarity in manga's now a days but since DGM is famous and making that money someone HAS to come along and claim shit is theirs! whatever as long as DGM still runs after they sort this bullshit out.

I'm guessing when he saw it he was angry? since both her mangas run in Jump

Edited 2009-04-25 09:46 (UTC)

Did you take a look at the images in the link? That wasn't just "similarity"... that really is plagiarism, whether she intended to copy it or not.

I can understand Hoshino might have done it unconsciously, but the damage has been done and if I were Obata Takeshi I'd be upset too. I'm a DGM fan but after seeing the images, I think it's right for Obata to take legal action and defend his work.

Well, that sucks. :(

Wha- WTF?! Nooooo! What there can't be two dudes shooting stuff from their hands in manga? T___T

Seriously, people. If I had a dollar for every time I've seen something in a manga that I've seen in maybe 10 other manga before, I'd be a very wealthy woman. Hell, they even recycle *plots* for frak's sake! The publishers are following the rules by putting the series on hiatus, but honestly, do you think Shueisha's going to let go of a manga that brings in a pretty healthy amount of cash? Particularly in the midst of a crushing recession here in Japan? Don't. Think. So. True, DGM is no Naruto or One Piece, but it *is* one of the top selling titles for the publisher. At the end of the day, this is about money. Hoshino=money for the company. Whoever the frak he is...Obata?=insignificant person who is costing the company money.

Dollars to donuts this will be settled quickly and out of court. Obata will be paid off, Hoshino will have to issue a formal appology, and then we'll have our manga back.

Obata is not just an igsignificant person. Do you have any idea who he is? He's ONLY the artist of Hikaru no Go, and a certain little well known manga called Death Note, which last I checked, may have made Shueisha a crapload of money, possibly anyway.

*insignificant

Plagiarism is a serious offense whether the victim is famous or not. =_=

I don't know the name of the series that the first image (http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/6397/98df6f0013a52da4e850cd0.jpg) is from, but Hoshino has definitely copied it in this Madarao panel (http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/5850/f5e8a2ec19b121f22e2e210.jpg).

And here too: Zone (http://blog-imgs-29.fc2.com/h/o/s/hoshinokatira/up53431.jpg)

The flowers and the leaves and even that ridged tentacle thing could be coincidence, but the way the shadow is drawn on the stone... that is definitely plagiarism.

lol, Obata is insignificant? You live under rock or something? The last I checked, Death Note is extremely popular. That and Hikaru no Go. Obata is a much more veteran than the newbie Hoshino.

plagiarism? Then she's in big troubles. I don't think this will be settled with just an apology or something. I'm pretty sure I've heard some manga got cancelled because the mangaka were accused of plagiarism. Just pray that won't happen to DGM. I love this manga.. I really do. But plagiarism is baaaaaaad.

I think I'm thinking in the same way as

wentwarth *points above*. There are at least a couple of other manga I know that are in Jump are held for plagiarism suspicion. We never hear any news of them landing in lawsuits or delivering formal apologies. Hoshino should be ok. Let's hope the manga isn't going to be gone for too long.

Using similar plots, panel backgrounds, character design... people can claim plagiarism for that but in a lot of cases it isn't. How many movies/tv shows have you seen with similar story lines, settings, and even characters...

BUT... in some cases Hoshino has drawn images that do not just resemble existing art work, they are blatant copies. Read my earlier post above to see the images and tell me that isn't plagiarism...

I'm a DGM fan and I will always love this series for what it is and I don't think the series will lose popularity. However, I do think it's a different story for Hoshino. I have lost a lot of my respect for her as a mangaka and there are a lot of fans out there who are just as disappointed as I am.

::snort::

When I first started reading this series, Hoshino-sensei was being accused of plagiarising panel layouts. More recently, her design on Jasdebi was accused of being plagiarised because, evidently, there can only be one long-coated, pale-haired pretty boy in manga at a time. Usually these accusations are leveled by raving sexist asshole fanboys who don't like female mangaka playing in the shounen sandbox. This is more of the same, and I seriously doubt that it has anything to do with the hiatus.

I sincerely doubt that the single panel of Madaro will get her into plagiarism.

I mean, if THAT count for plagiarism, what about all these?

1)

Shidou Mariya of Maria†Holic (2006)

Misa Amane of Death Note (2003)

2) Allen Walker (http://img-gg-02.onemanga.com/mangas/00000005/000123022/04-05.jpg) of D.Gray-Man (2004)
John Edward (http://img46.onemanga.com/mangas/00000077/000065142/01.jpg) of Silvery Crow (2007)
Note: Not only does John have brown hair that turns white, an very common English name (which is weird in Japanese manga) and a powerful special red arm - he is also considered cursed AND he eats a shitload (though he is as obsessive about CURRY as Naruto Uzumaki is about ramen...)

3) There's entire BOOKS (http://search.barnesandnoble.com/Hidden-Myths-in-Harry-Potter/David-Colbert/e/9780312340506) on all the references/ideas that JK Rowling took for the Harry Potter world.

4) And while we're talking of JK Rowling, check out how similar Dementors (http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_3YVYavw0PgA/SWjIYfxeoTI/AAAAAAAAFGk/Fv_vkOreh5w/s400/Dementor.jpg) from the Harry Potter series (1997) look to the Ring Wraiths/Nazgul (http://api.ning.com/files/NmF3OxI2gkEq3xWdbSh3tjvVHaVFYf0ToaAdo55qfEAAS3IVQ0o1NVqX4GuHwHKpPMztTzP8l3QoSGX*ve7M-5kriPsi50Ia/Nazgul.jpg) from the Lord of the Rings Trilogy (1954).

The point of all this is, when you work with fiction whether it be manga, anime, books, movie, comics, etc - you're bound to find thoughts of similarities or what seem to be out right copies of things. If Hoshino was stealing ENTIRE PLOT IDEAS DETAIL FOR DETAIL WITH ONLY CHANGING THE NAMES TO SOMETHING NOT QUITE IT, then yes - we might have a plagiarism issue on our hands. But for a hand sucking weapon? With all the weapons I've seen that are similar like that from all sorts of medias, you might as well sue for Kanda's use of a katana.

I very much emphasize that people wait until we get OFFICIAL NEWS that Hoshino is up for plagiarism charges (which btw - WOULD HAVE MADE OFFICIAL NEWS if it was true because plagiarism cases are BIG when they occur) instead of just relying on a rumor that someone heard on 2ch.

Edited 2009-04-25 15:36 (UTC)

Agree. I read more than 2000 manga and the thing keep me read DGM more than twelve is PLOT.

you might as well sue for Kanda's use of a katana.

thissssssssssss!!! ^_^

Agreed with everything stated here.

Agree completely.

This, bb. &hearts

Gah, you just reminded me of how truly ugly Misa is... Putting that aside, if one were to consider looks alone, doesn't that kid from Katekyo Hitman Reborn look more like Allen? (not that I read that manga) I have to say this: no idea is completely original, because the really original ideas have all been taken already. It's only normal for an author to base their work off someone else's and use similar concepts in their own work.

I agree with you :EEEE. Well, I'm happy that at least I know could-be-a-reason-why-there's-a-new-hiatus.

Completely agreeing with you.

I think it's all being blown a little out of proportion, I'm sure accusations will be made all the time (not just against Hoshino), and not forgetting that we haven't even had official word it is over this.

Adding a "!rumors" tag for this entry because, frankly, while the discussion is very interesting, there is no offical statement of what Hoshino's hiatus is in relation to.

The source that's been linked to says the information came from MangaHelpers, who also cast aside the idea of it being plagiarism and found it more likely linked to Golden Week and/or Hoshino working on tidying up past recent chapters from a new volume release in Japan.

If Hoshino is getting sued then, personally, I have my doubts it would start during Golden Week.

Again, the discussion is interesting, but if it starts to get out of hand due to all this unconfirmed speculation I'll have to freeze the post. Just play nice, okay? :)

OMG ... the health issues I would accept but this ... this way we could sue hundreds of mangas for plagiarism like that ... basically all shoujo mangas because the plots are always similar *I've nothing against shoujo but it's true*
And let alone anime - we could sue Star Wars and Star Trek and Star Gate for all using idea of laser weapons, interstellar travelling and similarly looking aliens.
We could sue the Matrix for copying the Ghost in the Shell...
We could sue David Weber for ressurecting Dr.Janette Fraser in his books because she had been killed in SG ... and so on.
We could sue most vampire fictions out there...
Basically we could sue most crappy politicians because their speeches are all likewise.

God, that's really managed to upset me ... I would totally understand the health issues (because the Health is the most precious thing we have) but this ...
I really DO hope it's just a rumor.

(deleted comment)

ah i noticed the looks as well
u dont see many mangas where the characters actually look
like there maturing throughout the story.

Now begs the question if Disney should be suing for the use of it's falling flower pedals of doom. Better yet, actress Miranda Otto for the use of her name.

But kidding aside, I really think if it were about Hoshino copying other manga artists we would have heard more about it. So far we haven't been given any reason for this sudden hiatus so maybe it's just her taking a vacation? Who knows.

Honestly, nowadays, every manga artist has a drawing/plot/character that looks similar to someone else's work. And a huge claw with a hole for a hand isn't that new - there's always going to be someone who thought of the same thing.

...

Well, while she is being sued I suggest she sues as well!

D.Gray-Man (2004)

Let's start with all the people who made up look alike Kandas:
- Macross Frontier (2008): Alto Saotome (twin brothers separated at birth, honestly)
- Vocaloids (2008): Kamui Gakupo
- Hell Girl (2005): Ai

Now with all those who made look alike Lenalees:
- Vocaloids (2007): Miku Hatsune

I can understand the anger due look alikes but unlike many other authors her look alikes seem to be random and unconscious. It's not as if she had copied frame by frame of Takeshi's manga in the way another author did with her romantic novels, they are isolated stuff.

Again I do not find the similarities odd. If I were to gather all the manga, anime, american comics, books and even TV shows I would probably have loads of fun for days when it comes to package similarities between each other in a bag; but then again, there's nothing new under the sun, everything is a remix of a existent remix of a remix of things older than us. I swear I would like to see what Bram Stoker would like to say of all these TV series and books about vampires (I would kill for him to read Twilight)

What I'm trying to say is: unless they prove she plagarized a good deal (like 75%) of stuff from Takeshi's works then I'm sorry but I can not see how she "stole" his work.

*BRB, looking for the mangaka who stole all the frames from a work to show what I mean*

man this honestly suks ass
-_-;

i feel like this has blown way out of proportion

i just hope this doesnt lead to the ending of DGM
T_________T im way too into it to forget about it now D: <
plus so many unanswered questions ...

...I wanna cry.

While I do agree that it is too similar. I don't think she stared at the pic and said. "Okay, I'm going to copy this and use it in dgm." I believe it was unintentional.

Though I agree with all of those above this post who are calling how so many manga have similar powers/abilities/characters/plots/ect. ect.

Also if they're going after her for a hole in someones hand that can suck up akuma then the maker of Inuyasha would be going after her too for steeling Miroku's wind tunnel.

Though this is a big thing and does point out that Hoshino isn't as original as we originally thought, I still love DGM and Hoshino. :/

The editors should really check that kind of thing more carefully. :\ That arm looks pretty damn similar, down to the shading. Even if it was somehow a case of great minds thinking alike, the appearance of impropriety will give Sensei's reputation a hell of a beating. Otaku are drama bloodhounds, and 2ch anons tend to Make Things Happen if they get really worked up about an issue like this.

Even so, since both authors work for the same publisher - hell, the same magazine - if plagiarizing Obata is really the issue, they'll quietly sort it out behind the scenes. There will not be an official announcement and any allegations will be denied, because it would make everyone involved look bad. So even if it's plagiarism, it's an internal tiff that will be calmed down; words will be exchanged, we'll get an "lol sry author suddenly got sick!" announcement, and the manga will be back on track soon enough.

Still a pain, though. Here's hoping it turns out she's pregnant or something. Plagiarism is like sexual harassment, accusations stick forever.

Augh. It's just a rumor.

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