dgray_man | Art discussion?

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Art discussion?

There was this post a little while back, where the art was touched on a bit, but I don't think there's been a proper discussion about the changes we've seen in the last two or three chapters.

It's personally been bugging the hell out of me, so. SO, I went back to pinpoint just where the style began to change. Out of curiosity. But then I thought it would be fun to go back to the beginning and kind of catalogue all of the changes.

And... I got carried away. Now I have a B&W picspam of random Allen images from chapter 1 to 197, plus two mini picspams of Tyki and Kanda (because they've been showing up most recently).

~~I would have done one for Lavi, Lenalee, and everyone else, but they've been scarce as of late and this post is about the recent changes.~~

Photobucket

~~(kind of skimped out on Kanda because I was getting tired of c/ping)~~

Sorry about the poor-ish image qualitly; it was much easier to copy/paste from online scans.

IDK. I really love what Hoshino was doing with Allen around the Ark arc, and Tyki when the monthly installments began with chapter 187 (even though I kind of miss his short wavy hair), and Kanda in that 3rd to last picture up above (chapter... 170?).

What's your opinion? Do you think the change is deliberate? Is Hoshino's wrist injury acting up again? Is someone else drawing DGM?? ... Does it not bother you at all? ~~What is going on.~~

So... I'll just leave this here. Discuss if you'd like? Or ignore me and look at all of the pretty Allen?

ETA: Forgot to add that I don't mean any rudeness by any of this. I know a lot of us don't like the new style, and that's just our opinion, but there are others who rather like it, or know that it will change as the previous styles have ("so really, what's the big deal?"). This post was meant more for speculation, rather than dissing the new style Hoshino's got going :)

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Someone pointed out awhile back (maybe somewhere else, I can't remember when or where, really...and it might have been about Bleach, actually) that there are all sorts of assistants that help, which is why the style isn't really consistent. One would assume that Hoshino is still drawing it, but the assistants probably also do a good share of it (clean it up, add to it, etc). I do miss the past style, but, eh, things change.

I was thinking about that too. But it seems so... extreme that assistants could so drastically change the style, so I'm not sure.

While we've now lost what was personally my favorite style (the Grey Arc style), I don't really have a problem with any of the styles (though I admit it gets a little annoying that it isn't consistent to begin with)

I don't think it's an issue of injury or assistants that's resulting in this. It wouldn't make much sense, because D.Gray-Man has gone through gradual and sudden style changes through the whole story. I think it's part experimentation and in part that she hasn't found a style she likes enough to stick to, so she keeps changing it.

I've been seeing it brought up a more lately, I think, but this is absolutely nothing new to the series. It's been happening the entire time, and I think it's just lately highlighted by her recent hiatuses and that we have more down time between chapters, so the changes get highlighted when it's not happening as gradually.

I mention injury, because Yoko Matsushita (author of Yami no Matsuei) was injured and couldn't work for a while, and when she came back to it the art looked completely different. Just an idea, and not one that I take seriously.

You're right about the changes. I've noticed it about five times now. It's just that this time around, it seems much more abrupt than the others. And before, her style was only improving.

Her style now isn't an unimprovement either, in my opinion. It's just different. It's changing and experimentation which is something we've dealt with the entire series and you'd think we'd learn to take with a grain of salt now.

Or maybe I'm just bitter over people always focusing on the art style when it changes that it seems to overtake possible discussion about the plot and characters. :(

Sorry if I was rude at all! ~~I don't think I keysmashed anywhere...~~

I understand your annoyance at this, but I do have to say that the art of manga is just as important as the story-- half and half; it's what makes manga what it is ;)

But opinions are opinions after all.

No rudeness caught, don't worry!

This is true, style is important. I just feel like after so many style changes you'd think more people would get used to the fact that it never sticks. This one will come and go, too, I have no doubt, but while it's here I'm not really going to worry over it.

It tears me apart to say this, since DGM has been one of my major fandoms for so long but... the quality really is going down. Since this post is about the art, I'll stick to that.

I agree with you, I really liked the way things were around the Ark arc. Then I liked it even better around the time they moved headquarters/uniforms. I liked even *better* during Timothy's arc. I especially loved when Allen's scar finally started to look like a scar and not some weird birthmark.

And now... I wouldn't even be able to tell Allen from Alma from Kanda anymore, if it wasn't for the hair. Hell, I had a hard time recogizing *Reever* who is one of may favourite charas ever. And there were some in the last chapter I couldn't, for the life of me, tell who they were.~~I'm afraid to see Lavi and Lenalee, rly.~~

I really, really hope she doesn't stick to this new art style. =/

I've been hanging around DGM for a while too, which is why it kind of hurts to agree. ~~The story quality is plummeting too, or is it just me? But yeah, sticking to the art~~

YES. They all looked lovely around the time Lenalee's hair started growing out again, and Hoshino had some weird coloring going on, but it was still fantastic.

IKR? Bak too. Could not recognize him at all.
~~Oh god, me. too. I've been wanting to see Lavi again for the longest time, but now I don't think I'm up for only being able to recognize him for his headband ://~~

Let's hope!

I think the thing with the story is that she's still not used to doing monthly chapters as opposed to weekly chapters and that kinda screws up the pace. But hey, that's understandable and I'll put up with it. The style not letting me recognize the characters, however, bothers me. =/

I prolly won't stop reading it or anything ~~my Lavi withdrawal symptoms are too strong to let me give up on this one~~ but I'm surely not enjoying it as much as I used to. =/

Omg, Bak, I had to stare at his panel for God knows how long until I figured out it was him. -.- But the new design I hate the most is probably Allen's, especially because he looked so gorgeous and mature and argh just right before. ~~O-oh God, if that happens, I'll cry. ;_;~~

*waves* ;P

~~I'm almost caught up to the current point of the DGM manga. So I'm good with this post, I think. XD~~

I think..this always happens in mangas. Characters styles change a lot, I've seen it happen in DGM thus far, Fruits Basket (which I don't really like), Loveless, and several more series. But, IDK, I like the style of Allen in the Ark arc and so forth. He's got a softer air about him. Same for Kanda.

Oh. And agreeing with the previous comment, I love how Allen's new scar 'style' looks. It's much neater than how it looked before. I guess I'm still interested in how Hoshino is going to work with her current style. It has cleaned up the characters quite a bit, but eh, I don't know if it'll always be considered a good thing. :/

:grins:

~~the latest two chapters will explain everything!~~

It does, it does, I know :D
And DGM has changed at least five times now, it's just that... while it was changing before, it was only improving. It's kind of back peddling now, which is what makes me sad and ranty and going off putting together picspams of Allen throughout all of his changes.

About his scar... I think it represents how much more powerful the curse is getting? Allen said something about the first time it changed... It, like, "evolves" or something. IDK.
It's all... crackly now, but I like it too.

It has changed a lot, that's true. :P ~~picspams of allen are great~~

Yes. I think so too. It makes sense. I believe I remember Allen mentioning something about the scar changing too. It is all crackly now. XD I do love the new look. But at the same time I like his classic scar look. 8D IDK.

I'm with the other posters here in that I liked the previous style (somewhere around volumes 10-20) the best. The artwork had a distinct style, and the characters were distinguishable. I feel like it's getting sloppier -- I feel like her art doesn't have as much finesse as it used to. But who knows, it could be on account of a lot of things.

Like someone else said before me, it could be due to the long break in between, the change in assistants, or just her way of experimenting with different styles and techniques. Oh well. Let's just hope things get better from here on out. At least the story is climbing to an interesting spot again (Noah Allen?!). :)

But, when Hoshino was published in Shonen Jump, she was churning out 16-20 pages each week, and now she only needs 30-50 for each month?

I don't get it.

I don't think it's the assistants (I said this up above), because it's a bit drastic to say that they have so much control over the quality of your work (not that I know anything about mangaka and their careers! My knowledge extends only to what I've read in Bakuman. UM). I've seen changes in the details of shading, and lighting in hair (which could have been an assistant's fault), but the characters' eyes and facial features look totally different now. Which... should be a part of the author's job, shouldn't it?

The explanation I find most plausible is that she's experimenting. To which I only ask,

WHY.

(yes, this is true. I am excited that the 14th's out to cause all sorts of hell :D)

More than the change in line-work and character concept, I think there's also been a change in the complexity of her panels: they're no longer as detailed, and the perspective/angle is usually simpler. I used to think it was a matter of pressure, and how she just couldn't handle putting out the number of pages she was requested in the given time unit -> poorer art. But I guess it's... not an issue of that anymore, is it T_T;

Maybe it's really that she hasn't found her style yet?

It's sad because her art was getting better. When DGM came back with that 50 page chapter after however many months of hiatus, it was GORGEOUS. There was so much detail, and, and pretty, and recently I just want to go ARGH WHAT HAPPENED.

Oh! I probably should have replied to you with my comment just above...
About the time she has to work now, I don't get it either. She now has more time to work on fewer pages. :/

~~I stopped reading DGM a while ago when it kicked my ass with no remorse. ;D;~~

I've noticed the art style changes. In some cases it works, and others it doesn't. One thing that kind of bugs me is how dramatic it is. Usually, the art style changes are pretty gradual which sometimes has to do with either the artist settling into the style a lot more or just getting used to drawing the characters. In DGM's case, it's more a lot of experimentation – which isn't a bad thing.

Kanda's remained... fairly consistent I think over the course of the manga in terms of drawing... ~~he still looks like Squalo though.~~ But I miss some of the earlier designs. D:

That's just it! What bothers me is how sudden this style has come about, when her previous styles have only been gradual and improving.

Kanda looks fairly odd now too...
I didn't include any pictures from chapter 197, where I believe his hair has become a character of its own.

~~Well, I'm still tempted to picspam just to prove that I found Kanda's parents. And just in general screwing canon over with it. XD~~

I don't mind changes in art style, but it was just like BAM! Art change! AND HERE HAVE A BUNCH OF PLOT THAT YOU WILL NOT UNDERSTAND. Me: D: WTF WHAT IS HAPPENING!?! WUT?!?! @-@

Kanda's hair has become a character of its own...? OH GOD.

"Kanda looks fairly odd now too...
I didn't include any pictures from chapter 197, where I believe his hair has become a character of its own."

love that. *cackles* so true though =0=....but ugh, the really blatant change was from 195 to 196...@_@....I accepted the slight changes in 195 cause of the 14th, but sheesh! oh, and i absolutely loved kanda back in 180-something....his beautiful, beautiful hair...XDDDDDDDDDDDDDd

I tend to think her rendition of Kanda peaked around the whole Phantom Thief G thing. His face had gotten longer and he seemed more lanky than feminine. Whether because of assistants, her own style changes or simple repetition, those proportions have faded considerably.

I just about cried when in the story, upon Kanda waking up in NA and seeing Alma again for the first time, he didn't even look like "Kanda." The character drawn at the moment of recognition could've been a girl, could've been Lenalee, even. I only knew it was him due to the story line. I just keep on thinking about how much more emotionally powerful those panels would have been if she had kept those more mature features he had developed.

That being said, I'm still reading the damn thing.

Individually, I've enjoyed all the art styles except for the last two chapters (especially last chapter, argh).

But the lack of consistency drives me nuts! And it affects the tone so much and makes it feel like a completely different story. *sad faces*

If I had to pick a favourite style, I would stay the Ark arc. :)

But I loved the gothic eeriness of the early chapters. I reread Zone a couple days ago (the one-shot precursor to D. Gray-Man) and it made me miss the early art so much. :(

(also, wtf is up with the dangly hairs framing everybody's face now? >_< )

It was wonderful to see Hoshino go through styles and improve. But I just don't see much improving nowadays.

Yeah, if I remember correctly, Zone's style was much like the beginning of DGM. It was amusing to see ~~Allen in a skirt~~ Robin...'s character, and I rather liked how her arm was activated in it.

If I'm honest, I like the style in chapter 1 more than 197...

The last chapter's art is FULL OF QUALITY. God, I cringed at it. D:

But seriously, I thought the art and story was great until it started to have the chapters released monthly instead of weekly. I really miss where it had been going cause I loved it, and now it feels so fast and/or slow at parts.

Edited 2010-08-23 00:50 (UTC)

:DD

It doesn't make sense! Why is the quality worse when Hoshino's got more time to work on fewer pages?

Let's keep in mind that DGM has been running for six years now... Artists tend to evolve and try new things with their craft.

And looking at the art in ZONE, I'M REALLY HAPPY SHE DOES TRY DIFFERENT THINGS. |D

Hoshino also likes to show that her characters are growing/aging -- I think that's why we see the most change in Allen. He looks older now than he did in the beginning.

There's always been art in DGM I've liked and haven't liked. Some panels are awesome and the next is lolarious. So the change in style isn't that big of a deal to me. I still think it's better than your standard shounen.

But, and excuse me if I'm being too opinionated, shouldn't their work only keep improving with time?

I never meant to say that it wasn't good of Hoshino to experiment and let us experience Allen's growth through her art. But, it just doesn't feel right to me now (IDK maybe I'm being odd and overreacting), and who knows, maybe the art will change again and be even better than when it was at it's best.

I still think it's better than your standard shounen.

You know what, you are so right. I should stop complaining :D

I guess... not all experiments work out? But I'm not exactly hating on the new style itself - to me it's still better than when the series first began. The art was gorgeous in the flashback chapters, that last panel of Kanda's hand reaching for the sky was great.

I think she's in transition at the moment, so I'm not sure how long the art of the last 3 or so chapters will stick around.

XD You're entitled to your feelings about it.

I guess my deal is that it was so good before, that I feel a bit robbed now that it's changed and I don't exactly agree with it. ~~We've been spoiled, I think~~

Chapter 193? God, that scene is beautiful, all of the detail in his glove, and the flowers.

Just have to wait and see, I guess.

Ugh, I think DGM has sadly hit that shonen peak and is on the quick downhill spin. Story wise and art wise. The art is just painful to look at currently.

But I can hope for a return to awesome, right? Eh...

omg that last panel of allen....*cringes*
i'm still trying to figure out why. people say its style changes...but there got to be something else... is it because its being serialized in that monthly jump?? so the audience is different? D: change of editor?

damn i miss old dgm style T3T old allen used to look so kind.

I agree with a lot of the others about enjoying the art a lot around the Ark arc and there after. This latest adjustment in style is not bad - in fact it's quite crisp and polished compared to earlier chapters - but the character design has been somewhat lost and, as mentioned, it is almost impossible to discern who is who anymore. But Kanda was looking veeeery pretty right before his hair exploded *points to icon*

"But Kanda was looking veeeery pretty right before his hair exploded"
Kanda always pretty *0*

Hee, he was looking pretty, but with silly hair? Sadly the Saiyan look did nothing for me, and Kanda usually does lots of things for me. ^w^

Extremely agree that Hoshino's art style has changed. And maybe it's true that Hoshino's arm injured will be affect his work. BUT I don't think someone else is drawing DGM. Because many mangakas' drawing style have changed during do their works. (Like Nobuhiko Watsuki, CLAMP, Aoyama Gosho etc.) ^^

Hoshino is female.

I'm terrible in that I prefer Kanda at his most pretty -- either during the Ark or around his first appearance. I'm not really digging the narrow eyes and stronger jaw she's been giving him lately -- I always liked him androgynous, and he seems much more masculine-looking nowadays. Super-saiyan hair notwithstanding...

As for Allen, I actually like how he's been depicted lately! He's still a babyface, but he looks a lot older and isn't as wide-eyed.

I'll agree with pretty much everyone here that Hoshino's artstyle is fluid, and it's just in another transition - I don't really see it as a matter of being "worse" or "better." Even though there were some panels in say - the Timothy arc that were just plain lazy. I don't mind the inconsistency, but there are definitely things I miss. (Again, Kanda's "pretty" stage, the vaguely Tim Burton-inspired oddness)

I'm a fellow "ark arc" fan so i don't have much to add..buuut I'm guessing when the battle's over their war-torn faces may revert back again..judging my hoshino-sensei's logic..

~~At least she's picking up the pace with the series again..it really lost a lot of its fanbase back then~~

I've gone into tl;dr territory over this a lot in my own journal, so I'll try to be short about it here.

I don't like the new style; like others, I preferred the Ark arc and the Thief G arc. :\

However, the style itself isn't as much of a problem for me as the execution. For a while now, the art (including the layout) has felt rougher than it used to, like she's still trying to get back in the swing of things. It doesn't feel like the art is working together with the story anymore, either, if that makes any sense.

My main issue with the style itself is how it affects the character designs. .__. Not like I'm going to stop reading in any case, but I'm hoping either Hoshino finds a good balance with this soon or there's another significant shift in the art.

Personally, when I first really noticed her art style changing, I was stoked. One of my favorite things about DGM is that Hoshino is not afraid to play with her character designs. I think it shows that she's having fun writing and drawing D.Grey-Man, and to me, that is awesome.

I especially love the changes in their hair, because aside from Important Haircuts, I swear that no one else dares to cut or change their characters' hair like Hoshino does. In real life, we cut and grow our hair all the time, and the fact that the characters participate in this domestic and mundane part of everyday living makes them all the more realistic to me. I don't care at all for Allen's new do, but whatever, it'll grow.

Overall, I do think her art is still improving. Her style seems to have gotten simpler, but her line work looks really fluid and crisp, and her anatomy nearly had me drooling through the last couple of chapters.

My only real complaint at the moment is that Allen's face looks like it's shorter than it was, making it look like he's either gained weight or aged backwards. : / Since we all know him gaining weight is impossible...

I think it's brilliant that Hoshino likes to try new things. All it comes down to is our personal preferences, and many of us just don't like how the art is looking recently. Our own fault, I guess?

I do have a few complains about the recent chapters (e.g. the Allen/Bak/Alma face issue), but when I compare the current style with 90% of everything else that's in Jump SQ, it's still blindingly better.

I don't think her art is getting worst per se, but it might be because Hoshino's still adapting to her new environment; despite it being months since the move, she's still in need of assistants (Japanese link) (http://jumpsq.shueisha.co.jp/contents/assistant/index.html) as most of her old ones are probably gone by now, and she might be having a rotating roster with the other mangakas atm (which is my conspiracy theory on why DGM seems to have some of Tegami Bachi's inking tendencies). With limited help, she's probably having to take some shortcuts with her work just to get it in on time.

This other idea of mine is pretty flaky, but in my personal experience the more I draw, the less it looks like my previous style though it does take a while. The fact that Hoshino's art can change within mere months means that she works really hard at this, which could bring up problems on the way... Oh Hoshino. T_T

Sorry to revive an old post, but I got into DGM again after two or three years, and... well, what a shock.

As many others mentioned before me, I loved art the Ark arc. The latest chapters are leaving me completely perplexed. It takes me a while before I even recognize some characters. I even showed latest chapter to my sister and she thought it's some kind of doujinshi, because she noticed Allen's scar. Colourspreads changed as well. I can't get used to the weird bright colours. Lenalee with light purple hair, whut?

And another thing (not necessarily related to the art itself) is what she's done with some characters, especially Tyki. I liked him better with shorter hair as well, but really, the thing he's wearing now (and other Noahs) is just jaw-dropping. I really miss the gentleman version of Tyki T_T (I was also hoping that she'd introduce new Noah family members in their own arcs, but it seems she wants to speed things up. Now we even learned about Kanda's past... I wonder how much of her ideas and parts of the story got scrapped) x_X

np :)

I too wanted some background to the other Noah, and I'm a bit let down at how everything seems to be rushing through (I wasn't even all that excited when Nea finally showed up).

What I've been most looking forward to is more on Lavi & Bookman's past. I mean, she's GOT to reveal what Lavi's eyepatch is all about, and what he finally decides in the end (Bookman/friends), right? I think I'll be super upset if we don't get any of that :(

Yeah, I agree about Noah! I just loved it when Hoshino introduced them one by one. I was always so excited, wondering who's next. Now that she simply threw all of them at us, I think it will be somehow hard for me to remember all of them -_-' And Nea... When I saw him, I was like 'now who's that ><' more than 'omg, omg, finally we see him!'

I can't wait what she'll tell us about Lavi as well. We rarely learned something about him besides little hints, he was always in the shadow of Allen and Lenalee. Now it's definitely his turn to shine after Yuu. I hope it won't be as confusing as the whole Alma-backstory >_< (Or maybe I'm just too stupid xD)

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Art discussion?

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I'm bad with chapter numbers

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art = hair, apparently.

Re: art = hair, apparently.

Excuses, excuses.

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Does the CIS/IT field use web development by any chance?

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I have SRS Premium sound. Is it something to be hyped about?