dgray_man | In Search of the Heart - A Theory about the Heart of the Innocence

The Order would definitely be worried. It's reminding me of when Allen was first accused of heresy. Do you think Lavi and Bookman would be put on trial? Truth or rumor, word spreads quickly in the Order, too... ~~You should write it! It'd be a waste not to do something with this. X3~~
He is! ^_^

And it would throw everyone who knew Lavi into a tizzy too, as they'd have to decide if they trusted Lavi or not. Especially people like Kanda, who are already suspicious and don't open up to people easily. Oooh, that's a good point. It would depend on how valuable Lavi was to the Order, and whether the Vatican could get their hands on Lavi and Bookman without those two making a run for it. Very true. Given how many people die in the Order, traitors and perceived traitors are likely to be treated with revulsion. ~~Hehe, I might have to. :D It'd make a fun summer project. ^^~~

Ne, do you mind if I friend you? :D

Mind if I join the discussion just for a quick comment?

That IS an incredibly interesting theory O_O I've been wondering about the Bookman Clan ever since Bookman and Lavi were introduced and the fact Panda keeps saying how they're on the Order's side by chance has my brain exploding from the possibilities. And THAT would be an awfully interesting plot twist... Now imagine that ALONG with Lavi being the Heart O_O I can see a whole Lavi arc X3 Lavi on the run, persecuted by the Vatican, his friends worrying about and searching for him, Bookmen trying to decide what is the best way to use him since they don't give a damn about anyone... And what would Panda do? O_O Would he really give out Lavi to the other Bookmen?

(If you write that fic... Please share? ^_^)

Sorry for barging in! ^_^

Not at all! :)

Thank you! ^_^ And yes, the Bookmen are shadowy and ambigous, so there's no telling what their motives are. At least with the Vatican, we know they want to stop the Earl, and at least with the Noah, we know they want to destroy the world. We really don't know what the Bookmen are after. They claim to want to neutrally record history, but if that were true, why send in Bookman and Lavi to the front lines in the first place?

Bookman has been fascinating. Sometimes he seems to be there to offer support to the others. Other times, he's seen repeating the Bookmen motto of "have no heart." I honestly don't know what he would decide to do... Though, it seems like he wants to leave if Lavi gets any more attached. But I don't know if that would necessarily mean that Bookman would turn Lavi over to the Bookmen clan in the case of an emergency.

(Hee hee, if I do, I certainly will. XD Right now though, the problem would be how would the characters know if Lavi was the Heart in the first place? There seems to be no way to tell so far. Fufufu. XD)

No problem! :D

Agreed on everything you said about the Bookmen; so far we have only seen Panda (herefore refered to as such to avoid typos between Bookmen and Bookman XD) and Lavi. We know nothing of the organization itself except that they have to record the hidden history of the world. I think Lavi and Panda being sent to the front lines was a kind of political move; it's as if saying "We provide you with two fighters and, in return, you let us in on your secrets." Get their trust, you know? Could be for purely academic reasons or not, as you pointed out. Also, there's the matter of Innocence actually choosing two Bookmen as hosts; I guess that means at least those two can't be that bad.

"Bookman has been fascinating. Sometimes he seems to be there to offer support to the others. Other times, he's seen repeating the Bookmen motto of "have no heart." But I don't know if that would necessarily mean that Bookman would turn Lavi over to the Bookmen clan in the case of an emergency." --- Exactly my thoughts! I can't make out Panda at all. I think he needs more screen/page time and that includes dabbling on Lavi's past =D Also, I don't know if you read the Gray Ark translations but it says Lavi has been with Panda ever since he was 6. I know Bookmen have no heart and all but... would he really be capable of and willing to give up a boy he raised ever since he was such a small child? We need more info on Panda, really XD

Hum, mind if I suggest something for that fic, based on what we have been discussing? The Earl could find out he was the Heart (thus you wouldn't have to say HOW he knew it XP) and negotiate with the Bookmen somehow. Also, as you were saying down there, the Earl could have infiltrated the Vatican already and would get them after the Heart as well; as the Earl himself said in the manga, it will be harder for the Heart to hide if everyone's looking for it. And then... You get the Black Order breaking from the Vatican and searching for Lavi too XP (I just want to see Komui telling Rouvelier to STFU and leave the Exorcists alone, really XP) And then you get everyone falling apart: Bookmen against the Vatican, the Vatican against the Order, the Order against the Earl and the Earl against and USING everyone... And Lavi in the midst of all this, confused as he is as to whom he is supposed to be and what he's supposed to do.

Either that or Lavi's hammer could start singing:

*insert Road's creepy song here*

Earl Millenium is searching for me
For the precious Heart, he's searching for me
That damned clown can't find me
I'm too smart for him
Earl Millenium is searching for me...

XD

...Bah, I have such stupid ideas, just ignore me, please '-_-

Hmm, I like that idea, of the Bookmen handing Panda and Lavi to the Order in order to be able to fill their records. It makes a lot of sense. :D

"Also, there's the matter of Innocence actually choosing two Bookmen as hosts; I guess that means at least those two can't be that bad."

Good point, the Innocence did like them enough to become hosts for them. Hm.. That might actually explain Panda's erratic behavior a little. Perhaps he too is struggling between his duty to the Bookmen clan and a genuine caring about the Order. The Innocence wouldn't have chosen him in the first place if he hasn't a goo person... and in order to be a "good" person, you'd have to have a heart. And anyway, Gramps keeps saying, "Bookmen have no need of heart," but that doesn't mean that they don't have a heart. ;)

Agreed on Panda needing a lot more screentime. ^^ "Also, I don't know if you read the Gray Ark translations but it says Lavi has been with Panda ever since he was 6. I know Bookmen have no heart and all but... would he really be capable of and willing to give up a boy he raised ever since he was such a small child? We need more info on Panda, really XD" I was just about to download the translations, actually. :D But you bring up a great point there. Again, the question is "Does Panda have a heart, despite what he's been telling Lavi about not needing one?" It's interesting. ^^

"The Earl could find out he was the Heart (thus you wouldn't have to say HOW he knew it XP) and negotiate with the Bookmen somehow."

Brilliance. :DDDDD And you make an excellent point on how that could lead to a breakdown of everything, with everyone not trusting each other and trying to eliminate the rest.

*hysterical laughter* I suppose that would be a give away, ne? XDDDDDDDD And your ideas aren't stupid, they're brilliant! :D

"That might actually explain Panda's erratic behavior a little. Perhaps he too is struggling between his duty to the Bookmen clan and a genuine caring about the Order." --- I think Panda, being older and more mature than Lavi, is able to find that balance I was talking about down there more easily. But, maybe, he's not just reminding Lavi; he has to remind himself sometimes too that he can't get too involved. I think, up until now, he has been doing a good job at keeping neutral but helping when needed. The fact that he's always stressing how Bookmen have no need for a heart (as in, they don't need it, like you said, not that they don't have it) is to keep Lavi in check. The damned boy is already crazy and jumping into fights; imagine if he decided, like Allen, that he had to protect everyone and sacrifice himself?

Oh, sorry, seems like I spoiled you a little bit '^_^. I really think Panda has a heart, as I was saying; I just think he knows how to (and wants Lavi to know as well) not do unnecessary things and be able to keep a certain distance to maintain the records imparcial. Can you imagine Allen or Lenalee recording history? "And then the evil Noah cruelly broke poor Allen Walker's arm and left him to die with a whole in his heart, made by his monstruos Tease." ...Yeah, no one wants to read that in a history book...

...I'm dead serious, I think that's how they will find the Heart; it will start singing something like that... XD

Eh, eh, thank you ^_^ Glad I'm able to provide some brain-food!

I agree. I think that Bookman is interested in Lavi's best interests too... He'd want to help Lavi find that balance as well, I think. And good point on not wanting to encourage Lavi to run off and sacrifice himself to protect everyone ~~like he tried to do after he broke Rhode's mindcontrol.~~ XD

Not a problem! ^^ *has now read the translations* I agree with you here too. I think that it's pretty much impossible to be completely disconnected from events, but that you can (and in the case of a Bookman, should) maintain a certain distance for the records. ^^

XDDDDD More reason to hope it isn't Lenalee! Imagine her feet starting to sing. XD "Tralalala, I'm the Heart, now tap-tap-tapdance!" *shot*

By the way, do you mind if I friend you? ^_^

Exactly; even if it wasn't only because Panda liked Lavi (which I really think he does XP) he would want his apprentice to be a good Bookman (and not die in a stupid way, since he would be hard to replace due to the eye thingy XP).

ROFLMAO XD Have you ever played FFX-2? That (lame) part when Yuna started jumping around controlled by the dressphere suddenly came to mind XD

Not at all! ^_^

Oh, yeah! Would anyone stand by him unquestioningly, or would there be just enough doubt? The Vatican would definitely make a grab for them, as it were, especially if (as crisyah suggested above) something happens so that they start regarding him as a candidate for the heart. I wonder -- would Lavi and Bookman even get a trial, or just be judged guilty since they are members of the guilty group? I agree. I think it might expand the us-versus-them mentality to anyone associated with the Bookmen, so that the Bookmen could come be seen as being nearly as bad as, say, akuma. If there are enough people siding with and against Lavi, it might even start to affect operations within the Order. But, I'm rambling a bit here. ^_^;;

Only if I can friend you back! ^o^

Please, ramble XD It feeds my brain.

I completely agree with you and I don't really think Lavi and Panda would get a trial really; they would probably just be judged as Bookmen and everyone would conveniently forget they were Exorcists as well just as they forgot everything Allen has done for the Order and the person he is upon just a little suspicion he might be related to a Noah that actually went AGAINST the Earl.

Again, sorry for popping into the discussion >_> <_<

It would be a very real danger, I think; it seems that, when it comes to groups of people, it's pretty easy to toss some logic out the window to make room for paranoia. Haha, I never really thought about it, but it is ironic that Allen was regarded with suspicion for having a possible link to a figure that was (if you go by the-enemy-of-my-enemy) a sort of ally to the Order.

Not a problem at all! More thoughts = more fun. :D

I think that certain people would unconditionally believe in Lavi.. Lenalee and Allen come to mind. Then others would probably doubt a bit, but still eventually be on Lavi's side... Kanda and Komui type people. Then there would be everyone else, who may or may not believe in Lavi. It would depend on how incriminating the evidence against the Bookmen was. ^^ If the Vatican got wind of even the possibilty of Lavi being the Heart, I'm pretty certain that they'd want to grab Lavi, if only to keep the Earl from getting to him. If Lavi were found to be the Heart, I doubt that the Vatican would even bother with a trial for Lavi, as they'd be able to say that they were imprisoning Lavi for his own protection. Bookman might get a trial, though. ^^ Indeed. And, imagine if the Vatican got involved too. There would be a lot of conflicting loyalties... a very volitile situation. Ramble! Ramble for everlasting peace! XD

Sounds great! :D *friends*

Yeah, I think Lavi would have to do something really horrible, while presumeably in his right mind, without later regret, right in front of Lenalee and Allen before either of them would start to truly doubt him. ^_^ I agree with your assessment of Kanda and Komui. I think it would be more of the non-exorcist personell that would be vulnerable to heavy doubt and polarization of opinion. Of course, the more incriminating the case, the more people against him (and Bookman) -- but to use Allen's situation again, any circulating rumors could be much more incriminating than actual evidence. Eep. I'd say you're right. If Lavi was the Heart and the Vatican managed to get him, I'd be afraid of Lavi being subject to tests or observation while imprisoned, to see if there was any difference between the Heart and the rest of the Innocence (other than the obvious ^_^;;). It would be interesting, with Bookman and Lavi separated. Do you think, if the Black Order got word ahead of time that the Vatican wanted to imprison him, that those loyal to Lavi would try to sneak him out first? Sort of a civil war on one side. o_0 Oh! If the Earl and the Noah found out about this situation and decided to try to take advantage of it, things could get even messier.... Ramble... for great justice?

Yay! *friends back*

In Search of the Heart - A Theory about the Heart of the Innocence

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject