What if...

[lovely-fatima.livejournal.com]

As I was re-reading the most recent manga issues, a rather disturbing thought occurred to me.



So, when Cross gives Allen the low-down on his true identity - i.e. the host for the memories of the Fourteenth - he asks him a question: "If I told you that when you turn into the Fourteenth, you'll have to kill the humans who are important to you, then what would you do?"

Allen, of course, is outraged--as we, the readers, are supposed to be. After all, the Black Order, the Exorcists and the Finders and all those people, they're the good guys, right? Right?

Well...what if they aren't?

What if that is part of the "hidden side of the war" that Cross alluded to?

There are several things that seem to indicate that the truth behind the war and what we have been led to believe are two completely separate entities and that the Black Order might not be the righteous organization that everyone thinks it is.

1. The references to hatred and monstrosity in connection with the Innocence.

Upon numerous occasions, Lenalee states that she hates the Innocence for what it does to her, her family, and her friends. Also, look at what happens to Parasitic users like Krory (I still think his name should be spelled CROWLEY, gorrammit!) and Allen when their Innocence is activated, particularly in the early chapters of the series. Allen develops this horrendous claw while Krory turns into an actual *monster*--a vampire that feeds on the blood of Akuma. There are even moments when some of the Equipment users mention that the Innocence makes Parasitic users into monsters. Suman Dark turns into a monster because he supposedly "betrays" his Innocence. The Earl calls the Innocence "the Devil. Furthermore, as time goes on, we see the Innocence using the bodies of its hosts with little regard to the wellbeing and safety of that host.

2. The imprisonment, torture, and sacrifice of children.

Again, I'll start with Lenalee. She's brought to the Order apparently against her will, as evidenced by the number of times she tries to escape in one way or another before Komui becomes a member. She is even told, by Leverrier (Rouvellier?) that there *is* no escape for her, no matter what she does. Leverrier's own family has a long connection involving Hevlaska that seems to suggest that the daughters of the family are sacrified to become a part of that entity. Likewise, Lenalee, Komui and others make frequent mention of experiments conducted on what we see are children (in the flashback drawings anyway) to determine if they are compatible users with the Innocence. Add to this Leverrier's words and behavior during the Level 4 attack, and a picture emerges of an organization that is more than willing to send children off to slaughter in the name of righteousness.

Incidentally, The Children's Crusade was a very real instance of children going off to fight and die for the cause of Christendom in the latter stages of the Crusades. I see certain similarities in DGM in that people tend to refer to the main Exorcist characters as "children".

3. The true nature of the Akuma

About the time of the Edo/Noah's Ark chapters, the Earl is playing on his pipe organ/piano/whatever, and he mentions that the heart of the Ark is the place from whence *both* the current race of humans and the race of the Noah originated. Since the heart of the Ark tends to be closely connected with the "Egg"--which we know as the Akuma factory--this might suggest that humans, Noah and Akuma are more closely related than we might otherwise suspect. When the Level 4 attacks, Bookman is quick to point out that in all the records of the hidden histories, they've never had any confirmation of what Akuma look like beyond Level 3. He and Tiedoll (I believe) both marvel that the Level 4 looks strangely human. Later, the Earl comments that he's happy the Order never got a chance to run full experiments on the Egg, because that would mean discovery of certain secrets about the true nature of the Akuma that he does not want revealed.


So, my thought is that maybe Allen (and hopefully others) will come to see that the Order is not necessarily fighting for the side of "right" in this case. I also think that the Fourteenth's rebellion indicates that *he* didn't think the Earl and the Noah were any more right in their own respect. Perhaps what Cross meant was that Allen was going to have to eventually turn against his friends in the Order just as the Fourteenth turned against his own family in times past.

Thoughts? Ideas?

Comments

[murdering]

I've always had a suspicion that the Noah are really on the 'side of God' in this whole affair. Seeing how... Well. I could write an essay, but you covered my points about why I don't trust the Innocence.

[mrpanadabear.livejournal.com]

Especially with the appearance of Hitler, I've considered it. And I think it was pretty interesting that she chose to name the enemy Noah.

[loveambulance.livejournal.com]

I suddenly feel kind of stupid for not realizing any of this earlier..

[animalboything.livejournal.com]

It's always been a consideration of mine. I tried writing about it a bit in some fic stuff because it'dbe a really interesting twist. Granted, there are so many things askew, but also if the old theory stands that DGM was for Dorian Gray-man then that'd mean that Allen, sweet and innocent as he looks, would end up killing the one he loves (aka Basil) then kill himself and really be a villain.

I've had a thought for awhile that the person Allen has to kill is Kanda because there was a reference to "that person" in both Cross' speech to Allen, and Kanda's "I can't die until I meet that person." Still linger on it.

Meaning behind the name 'D.Gray-man'

[yamamoto-kou.livejournal.com]

There was a small box in the fan book where Hoshino mentioned about what the name means. I don't have the book with me atm and my Japanese is less than trustworthy, but from what I've gleaned, the 'Gray-man' part has something to do with (the nature of?) Allen, Innocence and Akuma while 'D' is because there are lots of things in the series that starts with D.

Something like that anyway.

[zackichan.livejournal.com]

I don't think it's Kanda. WHY should he kill kanda, because of his swordsmanship? Kanda isn't that important for the whole story I think even if some fangirls want him to be.

it would be to obvious since Allen and kanda are fighting each other every time. (But still you can say that they are very close friends)

[usagi-alchemist.livejournal.com]

I had wondered about this sort of thing. The experiments the Order carried out on children were what first made me think about it, and I'm interested to see where we'll end up.

[calasstriastar.livejournal.com]

I agree with most of what was discussed, and now my own opinion:

The way I see it, Allen is definately being painted as an unconventional Christ figure in DGM. Jesus never really fit in with any part of society, astranged from both the religious and non-religious figure heads of his time. Yet people who were of lower class or ranking as well as friends and family loved him and followed him closely.

Allen is kind of the same. He doesn't exactly belong no matter where he goes as far as big groups are concerned, but he has several beloved friends and aquaintences who care deeply for him (though some people won't admit it). The twist in his story is that instead of sacrificing himself, he may be forced to sacrifice someone he loves. That, I think, is where the question of who truly is on God's side comes into play...

Here's the other kicker. We don't know who he's going to kill. I'm thinking he's going to be torn between at least three people... I don't even think I need to specify those individuals to anyone >>;;

[lovely-fatima.livejournal.com]

Oh, I've got a whole 'nother post coming about Trinity images in DGM. There are so many Father/Son/Spirit panels sprinkled throughout that it is more than coincidence (not to mention the "Pieta" reference in Lenalee's dream).

I also have a curious theory about Cross and Timcampy. They might be two parts of the same entity. More on that later, though.

[zackichan.livejournal.com]

I'm not even sure that Cross was talking to Allen when he said "when you have to kill someone you love". I'm quite sure Mana and Cross knew each other very well and since Cross seemed to know that there is this Mana-side inside Allen he may be talking to Mana, not Allen....

a theories over theories! >_

[nylle15.livejournal.com]

The theory seems really plausible. Ever since the Innocence experiments were mentioned, I've been having some doubts about the Order and the Central, in that they seem to have something up their sleeves that's not really pleasant. Also, I've always been curious as to why Hoshino used "Noah" to refer to the Order's enemies - so there might really be something in that.

[anime-manga-fan.livejournal.com]

Wow... I never pieced it together before. It makes more sense in my mind now that you mention it, after what Cross said to Allen, and the reasons behind it.

I will be amazed if it is legit in later chapters, if Allen turns his back against the Order because of those reasons.

[yamamoto-kou.livejournal.com]

Woah. I've noticed all that but putting all those points together makes it so much more clearer.

There's also the whole shady affair of the 'Three Days of Darkness' in the past, which their history wrote down as 'The Great Flood'. Though we've heard that there was a great battle and everything, we haven't really had a true account of what actually happened (This could be solved when Allen awakens...). For all we know, the Earl and Noah were the good guys (bad guys usually don't have such peaceful and bright homes like the white Ark, but that just could be their odd preferences) and the Innocence was going to destroy the world/twist it in some inhuman way. The Innocence might have done the latter actually, since the Noahs go on about 'not forgiving the Innocence' and 'seeing the true form of this world'.

No, I'm not saying the Earl and the Noahs are the 100% good guys, but the Innocence is definitely up to something, and I'm thinking it's something bad. Because apart from eluding the Earl, it looks like the Heart of Innocence intends to keep the Black Order from finding out it's true intentions. It might also be doing something out there...

Looking at it like that, the 14th may actually be the good guy here despite the fact that he will be of both Noah and Innocence. Allen may well leave the Black Order, but so might most of the Black Order members like some of the other Exorcists and scientists if they find out. Central and the Black Crows would make them stay though...

Speculations, speculations. :/

[lovely-fatima.livejournal.com]

Another interesting thing concerning the Heart, is that the Earl seems to think it is critical to his plan that the bearer of the Heart *not* find out the truth about Akuma evolution. He also mentions that the Heart is "hiding" and that all his "sacrifices" and the chasing after the Generals on the part of his Noah-children have been part of an effort to force the Order to focus more on finding the Heart and revealing the bearer.

Then, too, the Noah seem to act as if the Innocence has a mind of its own and *chooses* its accommodators. Road even asks if the Earl thinks the Innocence chose Allen because it knew he was the host for the Fourteenth, and Sheryl seems confused as to why the Fourteenth would decide to ally with the Innocence in the first place!

[ginzai.livejournal.com]

I don't trust the Order. Ever since they raised the point of what happened to 'Heretics', I've been somewhat nervous about them and as time progressed, I've distrusted them more and more. All you need to do is think of the kidnapping and blackmailing that they seem to indulge in with no remorse or their rampant experimentation on children to realize that the Order isn't made of pure holy-minded innocents. Then again, I don't believe that the Innocence is corrupt. I doubt we've learned even a fraction of what goes into it, to be honest, or much at all about its true nature. It's like the Ark technology: it's thousands of years old and there has to be more to the back story of both sides' weaponry than the little we've heard.

It's what makes Allen as a blend of Noah and Exorcist (and Akuma, if you want to take the scar into account) so interesting. He's a rallying point for both the Noah and those had at Headquarters, with both sides seeming to like and be intrigued by him. I can't help but to think that the Earl and the Order are both corruptions of what should have been - and that Allen is going to somehow lead both groups back to the right path.

[calasstriastar.livejournal.com]

I can't help but to think that the Earl and the Order are both corruptions of what should have been - and that Allen is going to somehow lead both groups back to the right path.

That's exactly what I think hence the Christ references. You worded it better, though.

[symbolism-egg.livejournal.com]

I would love that plot twist. The Noahs aren't good people, that's for sure, but it would be very interesting if the Black Order itself was evil. We need more information from the Noahs' POV.

He and Tiedoll (I believe) both marvel that the Level 4 looks strangely human.

Oh my God, now that you've said that...its hermaphroditic features indicate that it's a very frightening Adam Kadmon. Is the new human race supposed to come from Akuma? Is that why humans and Akuma were both from the Ark? That would be an interesting theme for Hoshino to use. See also this. (http://www.newkabbalah.com/adam.html)

[lovely-fatima.livejournal.com]

Ooh! I'd not thought about the Level 4 being an Adam Kadmon, but now that I read that explanation, it makes sense!

Somehow, I think that somewhere in the past Something Went Horribly Wrong and ended up corrupting both the members of Noah's clan and the new humans that were born after the Flood/Three Days of Darkness. I also have a theory that Allen/The Fourteenth and the Earl are two halves of a divided whole.

I'm just chock full o' theories, aren't I?? *hee*

[yezhanquan85.livejournal.com]

I'll say that the extent of the story will depend on DGM's sales. If sales are good, then Hoshino-sensei will be able to get her ideas fully expressed. If not, well...

WSJ has axed so many series that it makes me sigh.

[lovely-fatima.livejournal.com]

Well, if the bookstore rankings here are accurate, then DGM is still going quite strong. I don't think we need to worry for a while yet.

[maryohki.livejournal.com]

I really, really hope this isn't correct, but...I can see it. Considering that, in the Bible, Noah had to do something that was unpopular, but he was the one on the side of God, and his task was to basically eradicate humans save himself and his wife...Also, not to mention, why the hell is the Order known as the Black Order? Usually "Black" is in reference to bad things, such as the Black Death.

I just really, REALLY hope that this doesn't come true. As much as I like the Earl and Tyki, none of the other Noah do much for me, and I love Miranda, Komui, Kanda, Lavi, etc etc WAY too much to see them turn into villains...especially Miranda ;__;. Imagine how she'd feel if she found out that after all that time, her finally becoming "useful" was a lie, and she was on the evil side? And if Allen switches sides, she'll have to know...*wibble*

[arivess.livejournal.com]

But you have to look at it the other way, too. Maybe the Order isn't good, true, but you can't forget what the Earl and his people do.

They kill people.

If there's any evil, it'd be both the sides. And when you look at it, that's what war is: two opposing sides, both with their good, and both with their bad.

[lovely-fatima.livejournal.com]

Actually, the concept of war is a running theme in the manga as well. Lavi and Bookman frequently bring up the idea that humans are always killing one another, always starting wars for seemingly trivial reasons. Based on Sheryl Camelot's actions in "Flower of Evil" (158th Night), it would appear that the Earl and the Noah are exploiting this tendency to cause the deaths of even more humans than the Akuma could manage alone. And, of course, as you pointed out, in a war, both sides believe they are righteous in their cause.

[minato-arisato.livejournal.com]

The signs were already there in volume 6, but at that point, I thought it was mere desperation that pushed the Black Order to such means. As the story progressed though, we've seen that the Black Order has a long history of doing this, and that the Innocence itself is twisted, with seemingly little care for its wielders.

[zackichan.livejournal.com]

to be honest I still think that Allen is kind of akuma himself.

when the earl was calling all the akumas to edo Allen heard this call and collapsed in pain.
I think that he turned into one while defeating Mana as a child.

I never got it why Lenalee is so in love with the order and calles it "her beloved home with her beloved friends" since she was used so badly as a child.

I'll read the rest later, have to go to work now *memorizes this entry*

[strawberrypenis.livejournal.com]

Well starting off with Innocence, it is a very dangerous thing to begin with. Innocence is a material unknown, found 100 years ago and all that was said was a brief history, a prophecy and how to use it. The Black Order just decided what the hell lets use it since we know Earl is weak against it. We do not know who the maker is or if she/he was good or bad. Though the Black Order's knowledge is based on the experiments with Innocence they in reality haven't even grasp the full potential of its power as it still surprises them today. Using a substance unknown is always bad so in my opinion yes Innocence is some fucked up shit.

The 3 days of darkness is still shady. We know that it was caused by Earl fighting the maker of Innocence but somethings just doesn't add up. I want to know why was the true history untold in the old testament, you would think people needed to know this. Noah was certainly against God in this as his descendants speak of so. Bookman are suppose to record the hidden history of the world yet this is all unclear. Descendants of Noah might know the true history just as Earl does.

All these are theories that lead to the Black Order having bad intentions they try to hide. Using Innocence even though they don't know much about it and not caring weather or not the host dies as long as it was a necessary sacrifice seems all fucked up. Another is why the Black Order is a secret organization, because the history could have been covered by them, they are probably the ones who have destroyed any documents or have kept it hidden from others knowing the real truth about them. Look how Central treats heresy? death. So anyone who is not with them or questions them is against them, hm why is Central and this Pope choosing such harsh discipline actions? because they are trying to hide something! Are Earl and Noah's targets because they know the past? It says Earl hasn't forgotten the past. Even if The Black Orders true intentions are good and that Earl is the bad guy who wants to lead the world to its death, wouldn't such an organization care more for their few soldiers they have? or better yet the past they have on experimenting with children who they can see weather or not they are compatible, what the fuck kind of supposedly righteous group/belief/organization whatever the fuck you want to call it, THAT? Bottom line is they have dirt they are trying to hide.

As for the whole Akuma egg and Akuma's true nature doesn't fit in with the theory of them being good. Think about it, what are the ingredients of producing an Akuma? One mourning for a loved one lost, a metal core of dark matter that looks like a skeleton and a raised soul the to top it all of wear the skin of the one who resurrected you. Now does that sound like something good? Well if your theory is rebirth maybe. The Akuma egg is very important but I was wondering how? I meant what else is there to make an Akuma, maybe the egg is some doorway to the afterlife where souls can be called down from when a sorrowful person calls out for them, this is mind fucking me.

My guess about the 14th Noah was that he didn't side with Earl nor did he side with the Black Order but the "Other Side of the War" which for all we know could be fighting against Earl and Black Order. Well the mention of it was enough for Central to go after Cross. Because of the 14th, Mana became dragged into this or maybe he was a part of the order side of the war, hm.

Hoshino sensei said that D.Gray-man was named because in the manga it is about black, white and gray. I am guessing that this means the sides of the war because we know Black is Earl's side meaning Dark Matter and White is the Black Order's side which represents Innocence and Gray I am guessing is the other side of the war.

btw it was always bugging me but does anyone know what the hell kinda thing is Hevlaska?

damn I really got into this...

[lovely-fatima.livejournal.com]

I think Hevlaska is the collective consciousness of a century's worth of Leverrier daughters that were "sacrificed" as keepers of the Innocence. There's a section where Hevlaska calls Leverrier "one who killed his own kind", referring to that and other "sacrifices" that the family has made of its children in order to stay at the center of Order affairs.

And if you squint...you'll notice that Link *really* resembles a very young Leverrier. I think they're father and son, which would go a long way to explain the shared cake fetish and Link's extreme loyalty and concern when Leverrier says he's going to Central to inquire about the "hit" on Cross.

[sailormac.livejournal.com]

I've suspected for some time that the Order is not a righteous organization at all, and that the Komui faction would end up breaking away from it and forming a rogue Earl-and-Akuma fighting group on their own. In fact, I would not at all be surprised to see that the final battle is not Allen vs. Earl, but it's Allen/the Komui faction plus the Noahs fighting Leverrier and a race of Innocence-fueled supermen he's been creating in secret.

As for the person Allen has to kill? I think Cross was referring to himself. He knows he has to be sacrificed for the 14th to emerge. He also knows that Leverrier wants him dead, so that led him to fake his own death and go into hiding until the time came for his ultimate role in the drama.

[lovely-fatima.livejournal.com]

I am 100% with you on the Cross-as-sacrifice idea. It also fits in with the Hero Archetype story in that at some point, the Mentor sacrifices himself (or disappears) in order for the Hero to grow and come into his own power. Mana nurtured Allen as a child and gave him the things he needed to be a kind and compassionate person. Then *he* disappeared. Cross shows up and spends the next four years teaching Allen how to be tough, clever, cunning and resourceful--also things he needed to learn. He saves the last of the information he has until Allen achieves over 100% sychronization and has begun to see the signs of the 14th manifesting, and then he makes his exit so that Allen can stand on his own.

I don't think he's dead. Not at all. There are too many times throughout the whole manga when Allen in particular tells people "That's not enough to kill my Master." I simply think that he's withdrawn until he can re-emerge (sorta like Gandalf the White) in a new form to help the others fight the final battle.

[yarukage.livejournal.com]

Wow, this is an awesome post!
Um...I think you have a point on a lot of these issues. Certainly the Black Order as an organisation is portrayed as not 'good'. It has always read to me like an attack on the leader's following of their ideals to the exclusion of all else. To an extent, all the characters we meet in the Order, including Leverrier, are victims of the overbearing self-righteousness of whoever is in charge.
In my opinion, no one person in this manga is either entirely good or entirely bad, which is what I like about it. The Earl and the Noah have definite elements of humanity, and even the akuma have distinct personalities. We sympathise with them as we do with the protagonists.
What I'd like to see at the end of the manga is a conclusion in which neither the Order nor the Noah are destroyed, but I suspect that won't happen because, well, that would hardly be a satisfying ending.
Apologies if I'm not quite coherent. I am NOT healthy at the moment and my mind's a bit scrambled.

[yuuumi-sama.livejournal.com]

I'd have to completely agree with you. I've thought about all of this before.
Maybe that humans ARE Akuma? Because some DO say that humans pollute/destroy/kill/commit sins in general in the world. I always have been very bothered by Lenalee's imprisonment. After all, all she wanted to do was be with her brother. Geez, can't you loosen up? Plus, the Earl and Cross's words don't help too much.
I just wish Bookman would step up and SAY something since he seems to know alot about all this behind-the-scenes stuff. And Komui {I think it was him} did mention how Central only used their people like pawns in a chess game. Important, but not enough that they have to be kept. They can be freely sacrificed.
I'd type more, but I'm too lazy and I'm in agreement anyways. xD But yes, interesting ideas.

[kazura-uyurin.livejournal.com]

I've had my thoughts on whether the Order (or rather the Central, since they created the Order) was really "good". In line with that, I believe the Central definitely has some skeletons in their closets that they want to keep hidden. Which is why Cross was possibly targetted, and why Bookman warns Lavi that they need to watch out too. That said, I don't want Cross to be really dead, though how he could've pulled off such a convincing death is currently beyond me.

Other than what you've stated about the monstrosities of Innocence, I've got one more bit to add to that. Kanda's Mugen. For an Equipment type, it has the ability to use up Kanda's life although Kanda chooses when to activate it. More evidence of not-so-innocent Innocence, and maybe a bit of a future important plot point? of course, I might've already gone insane waiting for Kanda's past to be actually revealed in canon D:

Nice article I'd say. ^^ Things always seem more clear and logical when they're actually written down somewhere.