ext_41821 ([identity profile] lovely-fatima.livejournal.com) wrote in [community profile] dgray_man2008-09-30 09:51 pm

[discussion] Things That Make You Go, "Hmmmm", Part 1: Trinity

As I mentioned in another !discussion post, I've been tumbling a few things over in my head lately as concerns the seemingly inextricable links between Mana, Allen, Cross, Timcampy and the Earl. This first post concerns the concept of Trinity--specifically, the Christian concept of the tri-partate God that exists in mind, body, and spirit, and why I think Cross, Allen, and Timcampy are three parts of the same whole.

I'm going to put this under a cut because it's quite long and image intensive, and if you all are stuck with a slow connection like mine, then I know lots of images will make your computer's brain explode!



Okay. To begin, this is the panel that first captured my attention:



At first, I thought I was looking at a duality--two opposing sides of one entity. Then I looked closer. Just as in nature's dualities, there is actually a more subtle third. I had to ask myself, "if the artist wanted to show a simple duality, then why include Timcampy in the middle?" The theory of Ockham's Razor states that the simplest answer is usually the correct one, and the obvious answer here is that we're not dealing with twos, we're dealing with threes.

Let's take a look at Timcampy for a sec. When I first started reading DGM, I pretty much ignored the little guy except to say, "Awww. How cute! But why was he so big with Cross and then teeny tiny with Allen?" Then after the revelation of Mana's true identity and Cross' disappearance, I went back to re-read the series from the beginning. That's when I stumbled upon this:



My reaction was, "Is THAT Timcampy?" He's the only golden critter we know of in the series! The particular golden creature looming behind Allen is almost in a protective posture and if you attached Allen's left arm to it, it might fit seamlessly together. Not only that, it looks like a combination between a demon--an Akuma to be exact--and an angel--a horrible, masked face with all those teeth, and yet it has a halo and wings. Moreover, it's incomplete--only part of a creature, not the whole thing.

That got me thinking about the prominent cross design that marks the little golem. If you study religious mysticism, then you know that all spiritual symbols and their variations have certain meanings. The cross is no exception. I searched high and low looking for the exact kind of cross that Timcampy wears. The best I could come up with is that it is a combination of a Sun or Consecration cross and a Nestorian cross.



What I find really interesting is that the Sun cross is considered the oldest extant example of cross symbology in the world. Nobody knows exactly how old it is, but it is known to pre-date Christianity as it has been discovered in Sumerian and Egyptian iconography. The Consecration cross was used in the building of churches (or in the transformation of formerly pagan places of worship) as a sort of blessing or place-holder to serve until the church was complete and the actual Holy Cross could be used. Often twelve of them would be marked together on one wall or on a series of pillars to represent the Twelve Apostles and to suggest the strength of those who originally supported Jesus in his mission.

The Nestorian cross, on the other hand, is where the truly interesting concept lies. Unless you've studied religion or specifically the history of the Christian Church, you might never know who the Nestorians were (and are, since they're still around)--mainly because their rather unorthodox belief about the true nature of Christ was excised from the dogma of the main body of the Church in the very early days. Essentially, these people believed that the human personality of Christ and the divine aspect of God were two separate entities housed in the same physical space. In other words, within the body of the man Jesus there was the man's own human self and there was also the divine spirit of God.

Sounds an awful lot like what's going on with Allen, doesn't it? So even the iconography used with Timcampy has a deeper meaning that points towards the idea of true Trinity--Pure Spirit, God Mind, and Physical Form.

Here's another image:



This is the first time in the Manga that we see Cross. It's also when we realize that Timcampy used to be MUCH bigger than he is when we first see him. Now, I don't know about you, but for the longest time, it always bugged me that Cross just happened to show up and find Allen, and he immediately took him on as his apprentice. Of all the finders and Exorcists and other Generals actively seeking Innocence and accommodators, how is it that Allen managed to wander about without notice until Cross found him? Of course, in recent chapters we've come to understand that Cross *deliberately* took Allen in, knowing that he was connected to the Fourteenth. The question is HOW did he know?

Take a look at this:



What I want you to pay particular attention to is that panel there at the bottom. It's just before the moment in the picture above, but it's from Cross' perspective--AND, doesn't it look as if Allen has slashed his wrists and is bleeding out into the snow? That's just my own bit of speculation, but it would certainly go a long way to explaining exactly why Cross found Allen. If it's the Fourteenth's will to reincarnate in the world without losing time or experience, then he has to give manifestation to all three parts of himself. The most important of these is the Body. If that "incarnation" fails, then the other two cannot survive in the world. They would still exist--the mind and soul are eternal, after all--but they would be subject to the Wheel of Reincarnation like the other aspects of the Noah appear to have been. Thus, if Allen--the manifestation of the Fourteenth's "human", physical personality--dies, then that breaks the Trinity completed by Cross (Mind and Magic) and Timcampy (Divine Spirit). That's why Cross and Tim show up to save Allen. They HAVE to.

"But WAIT!" I hear you cry! "The Fourteenth made Cross promise to look after Mana, not Allen!"

That's right. He did. Let's explore that for a sec:

In Chapters 166-168, Cross finally spells it all out for Allen (and for the readers as well), but he also leaves a good deal unsaid. I think that the truth lies in what he didn't say but what he left for Allen to figure out on his own. We learn that Mana was the Fourteenth's blood relative, his brother. We also discover that Mana was with the Fourteenth right up to the very moment that he was killed by the Earl. So, apparently, was Cross, because as the Fourteenth was dying, the two of them made him a deal: If you promise to watch over Mana, then I promise to return someday soon. Cross tells us he was seriously skeptical--that is, until Allen appears. Strangely enough, Cross can't seem to give Allen an explanation as to exactly how the Fourteenth managed to transfer his memories to him. He just assumes that it happened sometime before he died. He's also seems genuinely sad that a "kid" like Allen was chosen as opposed to some "good for nothing" nobody would miss. This implies that Cross--hands down the most knowledgeable character in the series--*DIDN'T* have a critical piece of information.

Here's what I think. Cross was somehow involved with the Fourteenth before he died. I'd even go so far as to say that Cross probably sought him out, knowing exactly who he was and what he'd tried to do. The Fourteenth, having failed to kill the Earl and thus knowing that his days were numbered, started to make plans. If Timcampy didn't already exist *before* this point, he was probably created at that time as a kind of "soul jar" to house part of the Fourteenth's spirit. I think that he also made a secret decision--if he died, he'd temporarily transfer his memories to his brother, Mana, until such time as another host could be found. Upon meeting Cross, who is described as a skillful scientist in his own right by members of the Order who knew him before this potential alliance, the Fourteenth realizes that here is the perfect person to carry out his will--the Master Mind, who will inherit his knowledge of magic, of the workings of the Ark, of a great many things, including the truth about Timcampy and his chosen host.

I have a whole post coming about Cross and his connection to the Fourteenth and what that implies in regards to his death/disappearance at the end of Chapter 168, but what I'll say here is that Cross probably knew that there was a serious danger that he could lose *his own* personality to the memories *he* was inheriting from the Fourteenth. That's why I think the Fourteenth needed to promise him that he'd soon return in physical form, thus being able to re-acquire the memories he was passing on to him, to Mana and to Timcampy. This is also why I think Cross drinks so much. But again...that's a topic for another post.

This scenario helps to explain why Cross would even *have* to watch over Mana. Mana was the physical host and the recipient of the Fourteenth's memories when he died. THAT is why Cross says, "Mana kinda lost his mind when the Fourteenth died." It's literally true! At any rate, Mana is the vital link, and would have had to be protected. However, if we go with the idea that Mana's personality was suppressed or taken over by his brother's, then if we look at that scene with Allen, Mana and the dog again, we have to wonder if it was "Mana" who took Allen under his wing or if it was the Fourteenth who saw some potential in the battered and bruised urchin with a big heart. Was it Mana who unknowingly taught Allen the secret words and melody that would move the Ark, or was it the Fourteenth schooling his new host?

My guess is that it might be a little of both. I also don't think the Fourteenth expected Mana to die so suddenly before Allen was fully prepared to become the actual host. If the transfer happened anywhere, then it probably happened just before Mana died. OR it happened in that moment when Mana, as an Akuma, slashed Allen's eye. My reasons for thinking that are in Part 2.

In the meantime, I'll leave you with two more Trinity images. This first one is my favorite:



Much is made of the fact that Mana was a father to Allen, but what we forget is that Cross has been just as much of a father figure, if not an equally important one. So much of Allen's experience with Cross is told in small snippets, and all from Allen's perspective. He fears his Master, but he's also fiercely loyal and even pretty happy to see him when he finally shows up in the Ark. Yeah, Cross calls him "Idiot Apprentice" (which I think should be translated to Fool Apprentice, as the Fool is linked iconographically to clowns and the symbology fits Allen and his journey as a hero in the story), but look at that smile in this panel:



There's love in that smile. There's pride in there, too. That's why the embrace Cross gives Allen at the end of their audience touches me so much.

Here's the last Trinity image I'll post (even though there are countless others):



This one was the first image that made me start thinking that maybe Cross, Allen and Timcampy were linked. Look at that skull in the Pierot's right hand! Not only is it marked with Cross' cross, but it's also "wearing" Cross' long rosary! And can you spot "Tim" in this picture?

This Trinity picture leads me into the next post in my Things That Make You Go, "Hmmm." discussion: Skulls, Scars, Crosses, and Masks. Stay tuned!

[identity profile] natsurin.livejournal.com 2008-09-30 03:53 pm (UTC)(link)
Wow.... it was enriching to read your post about them.
I had always suspect and about Allen and MANA. Maybe Mana transfer the 14th memories to Allen when he was turned into an Akuma ha night.
The similarities and evidences u drew for this is an eye opener for me. Thaks loads! Will be looking forward for more.
After reading your post makes me wanna go back and read the manga again to digest and look out for these small details!
Thaks and you are such a detailed reader!

[identity profile] sasunarufan02.livejournal.com 2008-10-13 10:58 pm (UTC)(link)
Your a english lit teacher! seriously! I never thought an english lit teacher (any teacher for that matter) would read manga. Wow I think you gave me a shock. And thank you so much you just made everything so much clearer now.

[identity profile] ex-duelist.livejournal.com 2008-09-30 06:26 pm (UTC)(link)
I admire the level of thought you've put into this, but it really seems to me like you're over-thinking in places.

The theory of Ockham's Razor states that the simplest answer is usually the correct one, and the obvious answer here is that we're not dealing with twos, we're dealing with threes.

By the same theory, my personal assumption was Timcampy was there to look nice and take up space/add balance to the composition of the artwork. It's thematically appropriate in that Allen and the Fourteenth are both connected to Timcampy, the latter in ways we don't fully understand yet; but I think calling them representations of the Trinity is a bit of a stretch.

It's just before the moment in the picture above, but it's from Cross' perspective--AND, doesn't it look as if Allen has slashed his wrists and is bleeding out into the snow?

I think you're overlooking some of the context of the picture here, and I'm also not convinced it's necessarily from Cross's perspective. Looking at the dialogue, Allen is regretting his own personal losses and wondering whether Mana ever really loved him for himself at all. Personally I looked at the panel of child-Allen as being more representative of Allen himself, thinking back to the despair he felt when he lost Mana and feeling as lost and alone in the world in this moment in time (i.e. in ch 167) as he did back then.

And since you seem to be referencing my translation here (good taste, lol XD), I'll also note:

THAT is why Cross says, "Mana kinda lost his mind when the Fourteenth died." It's literally true!

It's not, and my original translation of this line would have made it more clear -- the scanlators changed the dialogue on this page for some reason. Anyway, what Cross says in Japanese is "okashiku natta" -- literally, 'he went a little weird', with the connotation of 'a little funny in the head'. This is a common Japanese euphemism for going insane.

Yeah, Cross calls him "Idiot Apprentice" (which I think should be translated to Fool Apprentice, as the Fool is linked iconographically to clowns and the symbology fits Allen and his journey as a hero in the story)

This is a bit of a nitpick, but again, in Japanese, the words aren't entirely interchangeable. JP Cross calls Allen 'baka deshi' (idiot/moron/stupid apprentice), while the word for 'The Fool' as in the tarot card is 'gusha'. 'Baka' is a slightly mean, slangy pejorative heard commonly in everyday conversation, while 'gusha' is a high literary-style word; and while they both carry the same very general meaning of a foolish or unintelligent person, I don't think the connection between them is nearly as obvious or transparent as that between the nearly-interchangeable 'idiot/stupid' and 'fool' in English.


Anyway, I hope this gives you something else to think about -- you've certainly given me plenty! Thanks for the interesting post.
ext_23824: (Default)

[identity profile] yamamoto-kou.livejournal.com 2008-10-01 01:15 am (UTC)(link)
But then I have to ask myself--why the panel with Cross? Why does his reaction to Allen's words even matter? I know it's a common trope in manga to show the surprised reactions of others in the room, but why Cross alone? Why not Lavi as well? He's there and arguably more connected and concerned with Allen and his well-being than we've been led to believe that Cross is.

I think Allen's words at that time brought to mind how Cross saw the boy for first time in person, after Mana was destroyed. It might not be an expression of shock, more like one of recognition from realizing that Allen seemed just as vulnerable and depressed as he was back then.

And I disagree about Lavi being more connected and concerned about Allen than Cross. There's a few panel afterwards:

Image

that proves Cross had been watching Allen the whole time along with his surveillance of Mana through Timcanpy. Technically, Cross is the guy that's been with Allen the longest and who's seen Allen at his worst. He knows what Allen's really like and knows what he's thinking even without needing words (E.g, when Allen went ahead and saved Miranda from Lulu Bell despite all the Generals firing, Cross knew without even looking). Lavi and the others haven't really seen the real Allen yet, and Allen chooses to hide his insecurities from them. Cross is the only one Allen would talk to honestly about almost anything. Thus, Cross is more connected to Allen.

As for being concerned, well, there's the message about 'making your own path' he left for Allen in chapter 173 right?

So... yeah... Just saying...

[identity profile] jynx.livejournal.com 2008-10-01 07:23 pm (UTC)(link)
Why not Lavi as well? He's there and arguably more connected and concerned with Allen and his well-being than we've been led to believe that Cross is.

Sorry to butt in but...I'm not so sure about Lavi. I've been having fun trying to pull his character apart (it's what I do; recovering English major - I deconstruct everything) and certain things just don't add up. He's Bookman, and yes, he's attached to them, but I believe if push came to shove, if it was his way of life (as a Bookman) in any sort of danger, he'd leave them (the Order) all out to dry.

The way I'm reading things now, primarily, is that Bookman and Cross know there's another side to this war (I see the Order as being the interloper to the real war, not exactly on the front line, and more like an annoying fly to swat) and if push comes to shove, THAT is what's going to play the major piece to the question of the Bookmen. Lavi might really like it, but he's a Bookman. He knows what it means to be one. He's given up how much so far and owes how much to the old man? It's not something he can just walk away from easily.

And goddammit, watch me write an entire deconstruction on the brat.

[identity profile] sora-morikawa.livejournal.com 2008-09-30 07:15 pm (UTC)(link)
I've always thought Tim had a mayor role to play there... specially when I saw Chomesuke, an akuma modified by Cross... that Tim could identify. Why can Tim do that... I mean to be able to track Cross is plausible but to identify something he made (and not my smell) could be something else.
Allen's image with the golden Akuma, I remember I've seen it before and thought 'Creepy, looks like Tim' but I discarded the idea... Tim is way too cute to be an Akuma, he hold the key for something very important...
Now looking at that picture again and remembering Chomesuke... and the fact Cross can modify Akumas... well. Tim might be a sort of Akuma? In able to build or fix something, you have to understand its composition.

Great post =)

[identity profile] laiqua-liante.livejournal.com 2008-09-30 08:10 pm (UTC)(link)
That was really informative, and really cool to see, thanks for posting it. I guess I never noticed a lot of those things before, but it was really cool to see them all pointed out. Hmmm... I think i need to re-read some stuff and look a little closer.

[identity profile] yezhanquan85.livejournal.com 2008-10-01 12:14 am (UTC)(link)
Actually, compared to what we know on the Earl's side, this is a flood of information. We need more Earl/Noah talking!!

[identity profile] drombanegirl.livejournal.com 2008-10-02 10:05 am (UTC)(link)
To be honest, I have a feeling that the 14th found out something about the Earl that he had hidden from the other noahs and attacked him based on that. Maybe the noahs themselves aren't aware of all the parts of this war.

Course this is just guesswork. I can't back it up.

[identity profile] wiccat.livejournal.com 2008-10-01 04:12 am (UTC)(link)
I loved reading this, thanks for posting XD It's always fun to go back and pick at panels where some hints might have been thrown in for readers. I hope to read more from you. Hm, I can't remember off the top of my head, but was it ever stated that Cross created Tim? Maybe he belonged to the 14th and was given to Cross, like Cross gave him to Allen.

[identity profile] questofdreams.livejournal.com 2008-10-01 04:32 pm (UTC)(link)
This was a fascinating read and offers much food for thought. I'm looking forward to your next post :3

[identity profile] willowchan.livejournal.com 2008-10-30 12:28 pm (UTC)(link)
That was a lot to absorb all at once. Now forgive me if this seems a bit obvious, but I thought Cross said that the Fourteenth's will was probably put into Allen before the Fourteenth died. So it couldn't have been when Mana died, unless Mana was being considered the Fourteenth. Now I'm not entirely sure, but it seems Cross considered Mana his own person.

I'm leaning more towards the idea that Allen was somehow initially connected with the fourteenth before meeting Mana. And since this sort of thing tends to get discussions rolling, I'm going to go out on a limb and say...

What if Allen was actually a "Walker", and not just some random kid? I mean, it'd explain what happened to Allen's parents if the fourteenth were his father. I guess it just depends on when Allen was abandoned. You don't really get memories until you're two. I dunno. Pick it apart as you like. It's more of a thought and less of an actual critical argument.