DGM and the 'Horrors' of Fandom Originality

[terpzilla.livejournal.com]

Goooood morning comm!

In the interest of generatiing discussion which is so not an excuse to pimp this picture, I has a few questions regarding the fanfikshun.

SO. For anyone who has gone looking for the fanfickles, you know you've run across them. OCs. More than likely, the dreaded Sues who just love to molest Kanda/Lavi/Tyki. Please to be sharing your horror stories if you please.

HOWEVER, I am not here to preach on those evils that spawn from inexperienced writers and the deep dark desires of the usually younger fangirl. This is more a question of character; seeing as the Order is down to less than a dozen Exorcists if I have my math right, what kind of characters would you like to see join the Order? And have you ever read a story in which the author succeeded in making a plot with a well-made new character?

Personally, being a fan of creativity in any form, I would love to see something like this. These days, though, most fanfiction just... doesn't draw me in with plot, whether it's slash or involves OCs or what. In particular, I haven't found a longer DGM story to really engross myself in.
 

Opinions Y/N/WTH?

And for those who would rather keep their peace:



*coughcough* 'cause if the guys all want each other, where does that leave poor Lenalee?

EDITZ: . Bigger, alternate version can be viewed here

Comments

[sincere]

OCs are very, very difficult to sell me on. I don't like seeing an OC who gets too involved with ~*~everyone~*~ because there are plenty of people around who aren't Allen's best friend and Lenalee's role model and Lavi's love interest and Kanda's perfect sparring partner. It's just not plausible. If you can tell me that this new person is Lenalee's new friend, but Allen's only met her once and they got along okay, and Kanda only met her once and he treated her like crap, then it's okay.

I don't want to see new Exorcists. Hell, even the anime attempted to horn a new Exorcist into the cast, and she sucked too. A new Finder should be good, someone from the Vatican could be fun, etc. Since I generally don't care for OCs, I've avoided all but one story, an AU setting in which the OC was essentially a yaoi-obsessed fangirl. Do Not Want.

But all in all, I read fanfiction (and write fanfiction) because I love the canon characters, and so the only OCs I plan on using in my own fanfiction are characters who are there to facilitate something in the canon characters: a girl who was Allen's first sexual encounter; a boy who Miranda adopts because I totally think she's going to adopt and because Allen has a lot of tangled feelings about adoption; and a boy who Lavi finds in his travels who has the potential to be the next Bookman. None of these stories are finished yet, so it's hard to say if my OC's will be successful or not, but the spotlight is never on how everyone bonds with the new characters, or how they're totally awesome, or that sort of thing. The spotlight is always on how the canon characters react to a situation, how the new presence touches on issues that they canonically have.

Maybe I'm boring, lol, and I've definitely talked too much. But those are my thoughts??

[terpzilla.livejournal.com]

Nope! Just the kind of reply I wanted to see :D

Of course, everyone reads fics for the canon characters, because I find it impossible to read a multi-chapter story 'epic' based around on person and their romantic interest *coughcoughTwilightcoughhackwheeze*, and unfortunately I see most OCs are there just for that.

Even though you see them for every fandom not every fandom is good for OCs, though I dn't think DGM applies to that. It would be easy to write a horror story about an Akuma creation or to explore the kinds of weapons Innocence can become, seeing as we're not going to see all 100 in the series. However, if one was going to write a story about an OC, it might as well be an original story.

So like you said, it's better for the focus to be on a canon character, and if a new presence is involved how they respond to them.

> 3< Your OC ideas made me mentally squee unhealthily XD. Even though I also mentally lol' at Allen having a sexual encounter of any kind; I imagine it would have to be an older, experienced girl, if Cross hasn't turned him to sex completely.

[terpzilla.livejournal.com]

I DROOD IT. Though while I love the bg I'm going to be replacing the version on dA since it's too small and I lost details.

:P There's actually a story (IF SOMEWHAT CRACKY) behind it, but I'm pretty sure no one's interested since, ya know, who wants to read when there's LEEEEEESSSBIANS involved? XDDDD

[animegoil.livejournal.com]

You know, what you were saying about fics nowadays lacking in plot? It makes me a little sad, because that is precisely the trend that my writing has taken. Man, my first couple fics, when I was... well, 12 or so, were very plotty. I mean, I really liked coming up with a lengthy complex plot. I still kind of do but... I find myself writing more and more one-shots. Mainly because my style has changed-- it's more intense now, and that sort of shortens the scene, so to speak. I mean, it focuses more on one emotion or scene with high intensity than a long, multi-chaptered plot. Not that it's impossible to merge the two, of course, just that my priorities shifted. And part of it too, I think, is that I've had less and less time, so my attention span and fickle inspiration, as well as available time, only last long enough to write a one-shots or short multi-chapters. And it's a shame, because who doesn't love those amazing epics that delve so deep into the characters and take us through a good, long, brilliant idea? They're glorious, those fics. And I want to write like that again, it's just.... time constraints. And the effort needed to really plan it out properly and follow through with it to the end. :(

[terpzilla.livejournal.com]

THIS.

D: This is EXACTLY how I feel about writing now OTL. I hate it, too, since I have so many ideas old and new and I just can'tseem to keep interest long enough.

*sorry for blabbering on*

[mako-pretty.livejournal.com]

I think that the main issue about OC's is that many people foolishly assume that any character with even the tiniest spark of personality or talent is automatically a 'Sue'. A good OC is fabulous, supports and compliments the cannon characters, and is wonderful to read...

Unfortunately, however, I currently only know of one fanfiction author whom actually writes good OC's, and she does not write for this fandom. There used to be more that I knew of, but due to harassment, the fics were removed...
Many times talented authors with good OC's dumb them down, and make them boring, because of fear of the rabid fantards attacking them, or calling an OC a 'Sue'.

I've scrolled through many bad 'Sue' fics for DGM, the worst being any of which Kanda immediately and stupidly falls in love with some 'moonspun haired heroine', and acts gushy and cuddly. *gags* Ok, one can rationalize to a certain degree that certain characters can act oddly in love, since it does affect a person, but I doubt that Kanda will become a cuddle buggy overnight for your 'Sue', and pick out curtains and allow his life to be ruled.

Actually, outside of a few well loved crackfics and some smut, I have not read a single DGM fanfiction that I have actually enjoyed...
But, then again, I can be picky, especially when it comes to pairings and dynamics...

I wouldn't mind some seeing more characters, as long as they're interesting. Maybe some well rounded characters, that would be good support for the main characters, and their flaws and quirks. I'd especially love some finders, or other non-exorcists to be featured!

And the art is fabulous, by the way.

Sorry for blabbering, and for putting my stupid opinions on the table.

Re: *sorry for blabbering on*

[terpzilla.livejournal.com]

No no, this is great! :D

D: Honestly, I hate not seeing better OCs. I try to help with constructive crit as much as I can but I think these days the fans either lose interest or confidence to develop better characters. It's rare that I have to all Sooper Bitch on someone's Sue, and lately it was just for the Vampire Knight section, SO.

Most of the bad or could be better 'Sue' fics I've seen involve Lavi, though there was one that while the OC was a minority, she had all kinds of abilities and knew all about Lavi's Bookman issues and I was just "Nooooo WHYYYYY". While I could totally see Lavi having flings here and there, I highly doubt he oculd loveanyone like he loves Lenalee, and especially after he really faces himself in the Ark I thik he'd put a stop to any kind of behavior that could be taken the wrong way.

I believe the only multi-chapter DGM fic I like is an AU one inspired by Dead Like Me. XDDD Hasn't been updated in a while but MAN OH MAN it's great.

x3 Thank you!

[wiccat.livejournal.com]

I can't say I'm totally opposed to OCs, but I am biased to them because it's true that most of them are bad. It's really hard to find a good OC and most of the ones I liked have been in other fandoms. As for a good plot fic, currently my favorite is a Tyki and Miranda fic called "World Enough, and Time..." or something like that. The plot so far is very intriguing and everyone all seem very in character.

[calasstriastar.livejournal.com]

My issue with OCs is that often they have "super special awesome powers even more powerful then the Earl!" and that all of the main guys seem to develope crushes on them. Then again, this is the classic Sue plot that many fans follow. It's annoying and for that reason I tend to skip stories where OCs are important to the plot.

I'm actually ok with minor roles from OCs. There are authors out there that can create awesome new characters who play smaller parts in the overall story.

As for that picture, I loled. I'm sure your Yuri OC kicks far more but then the typical Sues out there. Too bad I can't see Lenalee with anyone else except her boys... (OT4 whore much? >>;;;)

[terpzilla.livejournal.com]

That's sometimes an issue with writing I have since I'll usually develop a character I want to write about, more for the interactions and exploration it opens up with canon characters. But as much as I'd love to write that, it would mean nothing without a plot, some kind of structure that cause these reactions that everyone wants to see.

Uh, I was going to say she isn't a yuri character... but I wouldn't put it past her to be bi XDDDDD

[animalboything.livejournal.com]

On OCs, so many people make them the all mighty Mary Sue/Gary Stu, and yeah, I admit to usually not reading a fic if they promote the story with OC/WHOEVER. However, I've made several OCs that I've used in DGM fanfic and RP simply for the sake of plot and needing an outside character. Pretty much, those OCs vanish after at most three chapters, and really are meant to be background. I feel stupid with some shameless pimping, but in the fic I co-write with swing_the_bat, Allen Walker Must Die (http://allenmustdie.livejournal.com/profile), we have had two OCs make appearances. Well, technically three, but do demons (not akumas, but like demon-demons) count? The first two OCs do have a physical thing with two of the exorcists, names certainly omitted just in the rare chance that you'd want to read it.

And in regards to your macro, DGM really does need more yuri. So much potential - not much done with it.

[terpzilla.livejournal.com]

True that, for anyone who can't write a character who is just as developed as the canon characters but doesn't take the spotlight from them, OCs should just be used as devices.

XD I guess I have to service the fandom with some, huh? Though it doesn't help that until recently there was only Lenalee whom EVERYONE GUY LOVES. Then we got Miranda but she's so tied to her Beefcake (Marie xD) that anything else would be cruel... or lulzy. but some Klaudxnew secretary chick? Yeah, that'd be hot.

[sakanagi.livejournal.com]

I haven't even tried reading DGM fics with OCs. Not that I can remember, anyway. (After many years of fanfic-reading, my brain automatically filters out most such stories and leaves no memory of them behind...)

But, I'd imagine that a good DGM OC could be possible. With exorcists or with other members of the Order, and even with Noahs. It just depends on what's behind bringing them in - are they going to help illustrate a theme from canon, or show a different viewpoint of a canon character? If so, it could be done right. Just 'cause I've never seen it happen for DGM doesn't mean it can't be done. I fear that there are many 'a new exorcist: his or her story!' fics out there - but even those could be done right if they were meant to be funny and succeeded.

Also: what pretty art! XD

[terpzilla.livejournal.com]

-o- Tell me about it, I've long learned to filter out slash stories - not for a dislike of it so much as it's hard to find something new and/or not so heavy on the angst/smut.

This character came about really from me watching too much Princess Tutu xDDD. but after looking around the fandom a bit I've noticed that in regards to Lenalee, who for the longest as the only notable female, fans seem 50/50 in their like or dislike of her. I've seen some state that they'd just like to see a stronger female character that isn't adored by everyone.

...I'm pretty sure bitch =/= strong, but when I get around to writing a serious DGM story I want to insert a character like that not only as a contrast to Lenalee but also to provide a different view of the Order from within.

Thank you! x3

[sweeter-sweet.livejournal.com]

Okay that was alot of reading XD (yes I sat and read it all XD) But anyways, right now I'm working on a story with an OC (that isn't mine) and I'm kind of just throwing it together because I know that no one else will ever read it other then the girl that I'm writing it for. And it's horrible but, I typically won't say no to a person if they come to me and ask them to write something.

As for my feelings about OCs? I typically won't read a fanfiction that has an OC in it and I have my personal reasons and things like that. I also look at the grammer of the fanfiction and if I can get past the first paragraph then I keep reading if not then I stop. >> I know I really don't have room to speak as my grammer isn't that good and I have to have people beta my stuff for me before I post it XDD but *shrrrrrrrrugs*

Another thing I look for is these pairings that make no sense I know that there's alot of Yaoi/Yuri fans out there but in some cases the pairings are really rediculous... XDD

God I feel stupid now. XD

[ludicmelody.livejournal.com]

Here's one of the stupidest questions to hit fandom: What exactly is the difference between OC and Mary Sue? As far as my understanding is, an OC is a character created by the writer to fulfill a certain goal- either exploring a canon character's personality when in love/hatred/friendship, to move the plot along, or (insert other possiblities I can't think of). A Sue however, is the insertion of the writer into the story. Uh, right? And they're the ones usually with super awesome powers and have everyong fawning after them?

In any case, I fully support OC. A good original character can be really fun to read, and be a great tool for seeing the different facets of a canon character's personality. There's always that 'what if' scenerio that (quite possibly) every fan thinks of (eg: what if Kanda was to meet a girl, how would he act? What if he falls in love?).
Granted, I haven't read a good fic with a prominent OC yet, and I don't do that either because I rather like using the canon characters more...

I've read on an interview somewhere about a writer's opinion on Sues and the DRAMAOMG! around it. And what she said stuck out in my mind: "There are the fans who wish to enhance and perfect their craft, and the fans who write for the fun of it- whatever idea goes. They're two different worlds, and when worlds collide, most often than not, arguments happen." So I can't judge fics with Sues the same way I do with other fics, just because it's for a different purpose, so to speak. However, I don't actually like Sues, just because I find it highly unlikely for all the characters to love her, and for her to have such powers that even Allen's pale in comparison.

I guess the main thing for me about Sues is that they have to be realistic to the series.

But one thing I do find common among OC fics, they're mostly new exorcists. I'd be refreshing to see someone from the Vatican, or a new finder/scientist. Or even an Akuma, like Eliade.idk really, but I have noticed that. And also the fact that a lot of dgm fics have similar plots. =/

ANDANDAND.THIS COMMENT WON'T BE COMPLETE WITHOUT AN AWED REMARK AT THE ART. Oh damn, that's hot ♥. And yes, poor Linalee, the guys can't always be nice and let her in on the off chance they want a girl to join their fun.

[terpzilla.livejournal.com]

"I guess the main thing for me about Sues is that they have to be realistic to the series."

TRUE DAT. Sometimes it's hard to identify one when even canon characters sometimes have these qualities (Allen comes to mind with his bajillion abilities and identities), but as it is their purpose is to give the author some kind of gratification. -o- Unfortunately, throught the years they've built a biased against them that makes OC writers uncomfortable releasing works because they fear they'll be SHUNNNNNNNED.

:D I really admire the creators who are delighted and encourage their fans to be creative with what they've established, like the creator of Oban Star Racers compared to, say, Bryke.

:x I agree that most DGM fics seem to have similar plots when there's so much to explore! So far I have one pretty developed Exorcist ^^, a WIP male Exorcist (mostly for lulz, because DGM is lacking GAR XDDD), snd another female who's mostly a device. I'd love to explore Akuma creation, though; it's definitely that horror aspect that kept me interested in DGM.


THANK YOU~ I went ahead and added a link to a bigger version. The guys don't know what they're missing out on >D

[mellmell.livejournal.com]

Maybe it's because I've had very little encounters with marysues that I don't have any real dislike for them?

I think, even sues can be good sometimes, as long as the original cast can remain as themselves (although, I donno, maybe the character would no longer be considered a sue then).

[terpzilla.livejournal.com]

:x Usually, what happens in Sue fics is that the cast becomes either OOC or cutouts of their true selves for the sake of highlighting whatever the Sue is doing. Really, it's the mark of an inexperienced writer so I label Sue authors as those who do as they please and don't care to listen to how to improve their writing.

[lost-sunlight.livejournal.com]

I'll be honest: If I so much as see the word 'OC' on any fanfiction, I'll just skip over it. Of course, that's because most of them tend to have additional words like 'x Allen', 'x Kanda, 'x Lavi' and so on, and the accompanying description assures me that I've missed nothing by skipping it.

It's such a waste; DGM has a lot of potential for good OCs. for instance, I could well imagine that new Exorcists and scientists joining the Black Order could provide a different perspective of the place and their opinions could be entertaining as well. OCs could also serve as another way to highlight the personality of the canon characters: What with the grief associated with creating Akuma and the strange personalities that some of these Akuma have shown, I'd imagine that it could make a decent narrative.

Yeah, it's close to five in the morning if this didn't make much sense.

[riot-of-flowers.livejournal.com]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!

LENALEE WAS SAVING HERSELF FOR THE INVERSE HAREM SHE IS GOING TO MAKE OUT THE ENTIRE CAST (sans Komui and the komurins, mind you) ONCE SHE MAKES THE EARL OF MILLENIUM SMELL HER SMELLY BOOTS AND DROP X_X AFTERWARDS!

DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD:

*weeps* ;_;

(Honestly, they must be smelly for wearing them for so long...)



You can sell me an Original Character as long as it is not loved by everyone and their mothers or hated by everyone and their fathers, I dislike them dearly. Normal people is not loved by everyone, hated by everyone or friends with everyone. You have friends, people you know and you get along with, people you dislike and pretend to like and people you simply dislike. OCs usually are "All or nothing" (all the friends or no friends, all the powers or no powers, etc) and that kills it for me.

I would love to see a handicapped character at DGM, like someone who is blind or deaf or similar WITH THE HANDICAP (not the odd thing that takes place in animes); characters that are not super power rangers like the original cast (weakness is good!) AND OLD PEOPLE!!!! (Honestly, being young doesn't equal powerful, experience is what matters. 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s age ranges are good too <3)

And, of course, I want Kanda with a tiara (because it would suit him), Jerry should be a capoeira master and I would love Allen looking somehow manly and having guts <3 He sold me the "I'M THE MAN, FEAR ME!!! LOL!" concept with the akuma 4 battle and then gave us none of it :/. Lenalee was hopeful he would finally jump on her and the rest of the cast too and kiss her senseless *is an odd mutant who likes het, yaoi and yuri equally :O*

But anyways, just that, someone different to the usual and Kanda with the tiara. Yup.

And Lenalee deserves better than a Mary Sue, like, I don't know, the entire cast <3 *even though I fangirl more the Lavi X Lenalee couple with the passion of all the suns of the universe, like Allen X Kanda as well <3*

PS: Your Lenalee is simply beautiful <3 And looks so adorable too! (Is the Mary Sue Link's long lost sister who happens to have an innocence equally awesome as Allen's one?)

[terpzilla.livejournal.com]

O 3o........




An older handicapped character would be lovely. I remember seeing someone request a 60-year-old-woman obsessed with sexing Hugh for the Trinity Blood fandom; would it kill to have a MILF DGM character? XD

We needs to being more of the variety.

('Mary Sue' is a bitchy-bitch ballerina with bondage!Innocence. And Lenalee has to learn the skills to handle her harem from someone~ ;D)

[nights-fang.livejournal.com]

See my opinions on this are mixed. Coming out of many fandoms where most of the OCs in general turn out to be Mary-Sues (or their male versions); like most of the other seasoned fanfic readers who've dealt with a whole lot of rubbish fanfiction, an OC automatically will register as a Sue in my mind for most of the time. Regardless I do give those fics a chance and end up having my doubts proven true, because the OCs are Mary-Sues.

But then again, most predominantly OC writers now-a-days dumb down their potentially very good OCs for fear of them being labelled Sues. Which is a legitimate concern, considering the amount of times it happens. Have you seen reactions to any type of OC? Have a new believable Exorcist enter? "She's an Exorcist?! OMG SUE!" Have someone from the Vatican appear for a certain reason? "Wait she's higher than an Exorcist?! OMG MEGA-SUE!" Have a barmaid talk to one of the Exorcist she's serving, while they pass by the town, for want of a fun anecdote? "OMG LAVI/ALLEN/KANDA/SOME RANDOM EXORCIST OR FINDER TALKED TO HER, YOU'VE MADE HER SUPER SPESHUL! SUE!" Your OC is normal and boring. "WHY DO I WANT TO READ ABOUT THIS IDIOT THEN?! SHE'S DEFINITELY A SUE!" Your OC may have angst? (Do I even need to elaborate a reaction for this one?)

Like I mentioned before; to many people an OC automatically equals a Sue, even if it isn't. And because of this many potentially good OC writers either dumb down their OCs, or worse don't contribute at all.

Actually some people don't even understand the concept of a Mary-Sue any more. A new Exorcist (even though the plot is too overdone) is possible. There are 109 Innocences after all. The Order still hasn't collected them all. A new person from the Vatican - definitely fun to read. (Now I'm tempted to do this.) The OC has angst: Well not everyone can have a happy cheerful life. And even if they did join the Black Order/become a Vatican member related to the Order while having a happy cheerful past, considering what happens in this series, are they actually bound to stay happy? They're trying to save the world when most of humanity is blissfully unaware of the situation, so most of them will go down as unsung heroes. They'll eventually see comrades die, have an incident come up that questions their faith, or questions their calling, etc, which may give them eventual guilt or angst.

Wow this turned into a rant. Hope it makes sense.

[nights-fang.livejournal.com]

*To add* That picture is way amazing! I totally want to see a non-sue OC and Lenalee get together.

[sakurahanami.livejournal.com]

Hahaha~ Didn't know you are on LJ as well, Terpy-chan! The larger version is nice too, but noooothing tops the subtitled one! And your coloring style is preeeetty ♥

You stirred quiet a bit in this journal group xD

Remember? I'm Celestie♥

[terpzilla.livejournal.com]

Thankies~ x3

IT'S BECAUSE I ARE A DISEASE. I'M DEEP INSIDE YOU BBY, MAKES YOU FEEL UNEASY. SO KEEP YO DISTANCE FROM ME, DON'T PAY NOOOO ATTENTION TO ME~

[sitiomania.livejournal.com]

You know, I'd like to see more yuri in the fandom no matter how bad it is. (Not saying that your oc is bad) I'm practically starved for lesbian sex here. We have so many strong hot chicks that AREN'T SLEEPING TOGETHER. There's Tyki/Cross so why not Klaud/Lulubell? I most definitely want to see more of Bridget. Something else I yearn for, even if it's bad is a male!oc/male canon character. There's so much yaoi in the fandom but no one wants some extra fun? C'mon.

[terpzilla.livejournal.com]

Well~

I usually don't go for a pairing just for the sex... Then again, there is a big bias in fandom in general that so many hot guys can have hot sweaty fun together but not these beautiful girls?

And what about the not-so-beautiful people?

Love and sex comes in all forms! (...no pun intended...)

I'd feel kinda weird having my first public smut be femme slash, but in the name of the greater - different - good, I shall keep this in mind. Thank you for sharing your thoughts!