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dgray_man2011-01-02 02:44 am
riot-of-flowers.livejournal.com) wrote in dgray_man2011-01-02 02:44 am
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SPOILERS FOR CHAPTER 202 - Engrish tiem
The thing is that since his arc started I have felt a question nagging me at the back of my head.
As for what we could gather from the Arc and previously is that Kanda has this ability to see lotus flowers everywhere and that it seems to be a colateral effect of being a second exorcist or something along those lines. We also found out thanks to the newest Arc that Alma was his beloved one, that they almost killed each other and that Allen transported them to Martel where Alma passed over in the most romantic/symbolic way involving also lotus flowers.
Thanks to Hoshino's interview we know that Yuu Kanda is safe and sound and going to be back at some point of the manga.
Now, here comes the nagging question that was born after reading a question at kanlina comm: if you read Chapter 202's page 13 you will see that the Order has established that Kanda is pretty much dead and the rust that covers Mugen is the proof he is a goner, dancing cha cha cha in the afterlife with Daysa and Eliade.
Now, didn't he own a clock in which there was inside a lotus flower that could prove if he was a goner or not?
It could be that the product of the side effect of being a second exorcist makes him see that clock but what does it really stands for? I mean, at the beginning is said that if the flower withers he dies and in some translations that it was the other way (if he dies, the flower withers). He has died several times since he was reborn, especially under the experiments the Order seemed to put Alma and him under; he has died even a few extra times during battle or seemed to have touched heaven, seen the cha cha cha line and came back.
So, that's my question, if nobody can see the clock but him, if the clock is an allucination like the lotus flowers, what does it really stand for?
Now, does anyone else, after Hoshino's interview about Kanda being alive and knowing that what the Order said about him being dead is wrong, think that Cross is now more alive than ever and robably has contacted with Yuu "Allen's Noah grumpy switch on/off" Kanda?
They thought Cross was dead and the proof was the gun, they thought Kanda was dead and the proof was the sword, to me it seems Cross is pretty much alive now than ever and the proof is Kanda's sword and Hoshino's affirmation about this.
But well, those are my questions, being the first the one that concerns me the most.
Thank you for your time!
As for what we could gather from the Arc and previously is that Kanda has this ability to see lotus flowers everywhere and that it seems to be a colateral effect of being a second exorcist or something along those lines. We also found out thanks to the newest Arc that Alma was his beloved one, that they almost killed each other and that Allen transported them to Martel where Alma passed over in the most romantic/symbolic way involving also lotus flowers.
Thanks to Hoshino's interview we know that Yuu Kanda is safe and sound and going to be back at some point of the manga.
Now, here comes the nagging question that was born after reading a question at kanlina comm: if you read Chapter 202's page 13 you will see that the Order has established that Kanda is pretty much dead and the rust that covers Mugen is the proof he is a goner, dancing cha cha cha in the afterlife with Daysa and Eliade.
Now, didn't he own a clock in which there was inside a lotus flower that could prove if he was a goner or not?
It could be that the product of the side effect of being a second exorcist makes him see that clock but what does it really stands for? I mean, at the beginning is said that if the flower withers he dies and in some translations that it was the other way (if he dies, the flower withers). He has died several times since he was reborn, especially under the experiments the Order seemed to put Alma and him under; he has died even a few extra times during battle or seemed to have touched heaven, seen the cha cha cha line and came back.
So, that's my question, if nobody can see the clock but him, if the clock is an allucination like the lotus flowers, what does it really stand for?
Now, does anyone else, after Hoshino's interview about Kanda being alive and knowing that what the Order said about him being dead is wrong, think that Cross is now more alive than ever and robably has contacted with Yuu "Allen's Noah grumpy switch on/off" Kanda?
They thought Cross was dead and the proof was the gun, they thought Kanda was dead and the proof was the sword, to me it seems Cross is pretty much alive now than ever and the proof is Kanda's sword and Hoshino's affirmation about this.
But well, those are my questions, being the first the one that concerns me the most.
Thank you for your time!
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Relevant quotes:
On the table, the hour glass with his lotus flower still looked the same as always, in full bloom. The two petals on the base were also right.
Thank god.
But, as if that was a sign, the amniotic fluid in the glass started to bubble, like it was boiling. The lotus flower within seemed to shiver in great anguish, and the petals began to turn black.
It's withering.
Kanda held his breath, eyes fixed on the dying lotus flower as the petals fell one by one and the flower shrivelled.
That's… impossible.
His insides seem to freeze with dread and hopelessness sank in.
She could never understand the significance of that flower withering. My true wish…
“In addition, my wish is not something that others can grant for me.”
Kanda leapt at his enemy, Mugen drawn and raised.
Someday… Until the day I meet that person again…
“Mugen, Bring Forth Calamity!”
I will continue to destroy the AKUMA!
This lotus flower, and my wish, represents all hope. I must find that person as soon as possible, while the flower is still in bloom…
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*hugs*
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There's a thread on D.Gray-divinity with links to Novels 1 & 2--
http://www.dgraydivinity.net/forum/kandas-second-dojo/892-novel-translation-other-info.html
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*hugs*
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Also, Zhu Mei's biases are pretty clearly with the Exorcists vs with the Vatican; if it had been a cardinal saying that, it would've been one thing, but Zhu Mei's interpretation feels to me like "Kanda is probably dead, see, look at this. Now please let Allen go?"
P.S. Cross is definitely alive. I have no doubt! But also no proof.
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Probably Zhu Mei is biased and trying to protect him because he feels guilty of what he has done to them.
And hope he is, I want him back, the greatest ladies' man and alchemist shouldn't die so easily.
*hugs*
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And while I'm not sure if Cross is dead or not, that was different: his Innocence was intact, and Hevlaska said specifically that "Cross Marian is no longer the host for this Innocence".
So, if anything, I agree that it could be something more similar to what happened to Lenalee. They didn't know what was going on with hers either, did they?
Edit: … The more I think about it, the more I think it's this. You know, the whole Lenalee arc could be roughly summed up in her struggling to decide if she really wanted her Innocence back, and not because someone else forced it on her. Now that Kanda has fulfilled his goal, does he really want to be an Exorcist now? If so, he'll have to prove himself to the Innocence, and not because of someone else he has to find or stuff, but because he wants it. Does that make sense?
BUT! If Cross is truly alive (which I'm inclined to believe), I think he'd definitively contact Kanda. Though, like, how would he even know where Kanda was?
(In my crazy on-going senseless plotbunny: of course he would, HE'S FROM THE FUTURE.)Actually, I don't see how Kanda can survive this if someone doesn't help him out. Wasn't Matera a ghost city? Isn't he pretty much dead? D:
And by the way, why the frack did he have those illusions in the first place? Is it a confirmed side-effect of the Second Exorcist project and are they disappeared now that he found the person he was looking for? Are we getting some answers next chapter? ;_;
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I can see Kanda survive, despite being Lala a doll, Gouzol was an elderly man, there has to be at least a source of water to help him. One can survive a long period of time without food but three days without water and Kanda has the training to survive.
As for Cross, I think he can find him, I don't know how much Timcampy saw or transmited, I mean, the little guy knew when to come in, the exact moment when it had to get in to defend Allen, it makes me think it kept some sort of connection with Allen during the fight and that he could transmited such information somewhere else, like, for example, its former owner Cross Marian.
To me Cross Marian got some important information from Mana before he passed away, otherwise it would be too much of a coincidence that he was just passing by when he saw Allen fight Akuma!Mana. I think it was bound to happen, that they orchestrated everything and that Cross knows more than what he has said already.
Nugatory42 gave me the links to the novels, it seems that the lotus flowers represent Kanda's most intense wishes and they show up as lotus flowers, being the clock just the surface of his inner biggest wish (to me, it's the promise he made to Alma of finding her/him no matter how long it took him). The lotus are somehow reminders of that intense desire he has and it seems being a second exorcist, or perhaps the innocence he has, enable him to see them everywhere (it has to be a lolastic experience to see, for example, Jeryy surrounded with lotus flowers a la bishoujo manga XD).
*hugs*
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I hadn't thought of that, but it sounds great and possible!
Also: Kanda and Mugen = total canon love.Well, yes, Timcampy went to help Allen, but I thought it was more because of the 14th than anything else; he became huge just as Allen became a Noah, and the 14th did say “My Timcampy” the first time Allen met him, after all. And, he had the score. Really, Allen could at least try to get some information out of Tim… e__e
As for the information Mana gave Cross, I think it was the 14th who told him most of what he knows, which is so not limited to what he told Allen that time before he "died." In the last novel (don't know if you've already read the summaries… If not you definitively should, there are some serious mindfuck spoilers there!), Allen met Cross before he started travelling with Mana, and he seemed to know what was going on far too well. So I think he was stalking them and had been for a while when Allen brought Mana back.
But I wouldn't be surprised if he managed to get the last news from the war while minding his own business away. If he's still alive and himself, that's it.
Oh, right, I had forgotten that Kanda's Innocence was all about illusions and stuff. It could be an explanation, sort of. (Ahah, that's such an awesome crack image I really don't understand why Hoshino hasn't drawn it yet. I bet that's why Kanda's always so grumpy. I would be too if every time I woke up all I could see were big fat pink flowers… xD)
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Timcampy has more info than what s/he lets us know. Perhaps Tim was made to hold all the information Mana gave to Cross before his death, I'm unsure because I have yet to read the novels (life, why do you hate my happy free "not doing nothing at all" time?).
Hopefully he is, before he was shot he gave me the impression he was the leader of the third party he talked about (for some reason I laugh at the idea of Cross calling it something like "La resistance" with french accent included).
Yup, it could be that, all his powers are called "Illusion" something, perhaps the innocence enables him to see the flowers. And Hoshino should have cracked that joke, I mean, Jeryyy and Leverrier sound like fantastic options but Tiedoll, goodness, it would have been wonderful!
Tiedoll would be like "Oh Yuu-kun, let's have a father-son moment, shall we? I brough you a jeans overall, a straw hat and a very pretty shirt that says "I'm with dad". We could go outside and do some lovely gardening, I know how much you love magnolias!" and be surrounded by as many lotus and sparkles that it would give both Tamaki and any shoujo manga a headache due the excess of sparkles and flowers and happiness and pink and everything that is considered girly.
I'm pretty sure that's why Kanda is quite pissed off, he did not only have to suffer looking like a young lady during his early teens but also having a soujo manga vision. Panda must look so bishounen to him XD
*hugs*
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and the lotus in the hourglass thing was if all the petals died, then something happens to Kanda. they say that Kanda will die when the lotus dies (beauty and the beast style, LOL) but what will exactly happen to Kanda, we don't know. although, the theory that it was a curse put on him by his "beloved" is obviously false at this point, lol.
oh, and where can I find Hoshino's interview??? been trying to find it, but no luck so far.....
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(Anonymous) 2011-01-03 09:45 pm (UTC)(link)http://community.livejournal.com/exorcists_order/167037.html
It's the only information I've seen in my limited corner of the Internet ^^;;
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For what I could gather from nugatory42 (and I still have pending reading those novels) is that the hourglass does not exist, it is but a representation of Kanda's strongest wish/desire which is to find that person no matter how long it takes him.
And yup, it can be that Zhu Mei feels guilty and is pretending Kanda is dead in order to let him have a reasonable easy life from now onwards.
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The lotus in the hourglass wasn't a sign of how much 'life' Kanda had but more of a representation of the promise he made to the Woman/Alma, not his actual life force. The second he fulfilled that promise the lotus dissapeared. Hence why the flower withered away.
The rust? lol we all know that Mugen is just saving itself for Kanda. She's a good girl like that. Why hasn't it done the same for Cross? Not sure, but the reason why Timcampy can't find him is fairly obvious. Cross has passed ownership onto Allen so Allen is the one Tim will home in on if they get lost. How else was Tim able to find Allen at the foreign branch.
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As for being still able to see lotus flowers, I think he doesn't right now, that his innocence, being it all about illusions (all his powers are called something illusion something), enabled him to see them. He just had the extra nutshell of Woman!Alma chasing him around.
Yup, to me it souds like that, that Mugen is saving itself for its master, so nobody can actually touch it (also, it was surprising to see that the rust shape seems to look a lot like the wing covered version of Kanda's innocence). Cross, to me, for what has been said above, seemed to reject the innocence or perhaps Hevlaska lied. We are assuming that Zhu Mei lied about Kanda being dead to protect him, perhaps Hevlaska did the same and is part of the third front.
As for Tim, I think it can contact his master properly, it does not want to either due its personal reasons or because he hasn't be ordered to do so (I don't recall if at the manga Allen had to find out that Tim could find its maker on its own, I have been watching the anime because I never saw it) or because it has been ordered to not return to Cross after a particular event or certain time. To me, Tim always allows Cross to know about Allen's whereabouts and actions in order to keep him informed about how close he is or not of losing it to the 14th (If I was Cross, after finding out Allen could turn into a Noah, I would have that beansprout surveilled (?) a lot) that's why I also think it can find Allen anywhere he goes.
*hugs*
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I mean the first time he saw them was when Alma stabbed him. *when he was dying during the synchro experiments, he wasn't seeing the flowers*
And then the first time Hoshino showed us he can see them is when he "woke up" over where Alma was sleeping in coma, after Wisely had crushed his brain. Then the next time was while he was fighting with Alma, when he again died because he was pierced in the heart etc.
So from all Hoshino showed us in the latest chapters, Kanda always sees the lotuses after "coming back to life". Well...that's what I noticed at least XD
If you notice, even back then in the very first chapters with his mission with Allen in Martel, he always closes his eyes/bows his head, before coming back to life and seeing the flowers *only that Hoshino didn't show us the flowers back in the first Martel mission, probably in order not to spoil us* http://www.mangareader.net/210-15103-16/dgray-man/chapter-12.html *Kanda's so beautiful there nyaaa~ 8D*
Also when Alma first stabbed and killed him when they were fighting as kids, it's the first time he saw the lotus, *apart from the dreams I mean* and it was only one lotus. I think it's because it was the first time he died, after remembering who he was, in other words remembering those past life's memories from the person he has his brains from.
Then with time the lotuses become more and more and I think one new one adds to the previous ones with every time he dies.
Also Hoshino showed us the flowers, while Alma was dying in Kanda's arms in Martel, probably to imply that "since Kanda sees the flowers after he regenerates and comes back to life, yes dear DGM fans, Kanda Yuu has just regenerated, has still life force left and will be ready to go again soon!" °D°
If you notice, Kanda is leaning against that column in Martel, with his head down *probably dying* but then he opens his eyes again *probably after he came back to life* and sees all the flowers and Alma off to the very end. *I'm so gonna draw a doujinshi to that theory I swear...XD*
Well I guess not all people would notice that thing with the flowers and Hoshino's imply-thing that Kanda will be back...Or maybe I'm just too excited XD
Now...I think Mugen is just making all this *the rust* while waiting for Kanda to come back. Like someone here mentioned, maybe it's so that no one can use it, until Kanda returns and claims the weapon again. Or maybe it's to fake Kanda's death, or maybe even Mugen is about to become a Crystal Innocence too, but it just needs Kanda to cooperate in order to achieve that, so for the time being it puts up all that rust....I don't know! XD
But I believe that Cross is alive too. I have no proofs but it was just too sudden for me :/
About Kanda again: I have a lot of questions about the clock too. I've read the novel about it in around a year ago, but I still can't say something for sure... It must exist in reality and not be just Kanda's illusion because in one chapter-cover, Hoshino was introducing the rooms of various exorcists, in the way "[...] while being lost, Allen suddenly stumbled in this room" and well, in Kanda's room, Allen you indeed SEE the clock, as far as I remember, so it MUST be there. Now...what its meaning is, I'm not sure myself ^^°
Thank God!
(Anonymous) 2011-01-07 05:00 am (UTC)(link)Thanks!
no subject